----- Original Message -----
From: Linda Rorem <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: English Collie, Farm Collie???
> English (British Kennel Club) Collies still look a bit different from the
> American (AKC) ones, they tend to be a little smaller size over all with a
> lighter build, the head shorter with more width at the ears and stop, but
> nowadays they are *very* heavily coated as adults (puppy coat would be
> shorter of course). It's possible in this case that "English Collie" was
> just being used in place of "English Shepherd." But who knows! Maybe
> there was an ancestor that was a Collie brought over from England.
> There are some sable collies that are very clear with very little black,
> the black will be there somewhere even if only a few dark hairs at the
> shoulder or the spot toward the top of the tail. This color is usually
> associated with a dog that is genetically "pure for sable," that is, it
> doesn't carry the gene for tricolor (black/tan). Some of them can be hard
> distinguish from the "clear sable" of the ES type, without a close look.
Yes that is it! Thank you Linda. I couldn't remember the details -they are
pure for sable- sometimes can be very washed out. Thanks for helping my
I looked all over the web and couldn't find any reference to brandywine
kennels or the book. It is sad. Apparently one piece of collie history
has been lost to the average person at least and probably even to the
breeders by the next generation. I wrote the woman who handles the CCA
archives. It will be interesting to see how she responds.barbara
> ES "clear sable" isn't really sable, but the "Golden Retriever" color that
> may have a black nose, but no black hairs on the body.
> Linda R.
> Pacifica, CA