Thank you so much Judy, you have several good points. I think you are absolutely right that this will take a long time to accomplish. I'm hoping that these folks will be willing to invest the time. They do have a nice fenced in yard (6 foot stockade) and MIlano feels comfortable out there. We gave them his dog house too so he'd feel more at home.

I'll go to the bookstore and see if I can find a good book on this subject. I had initially warned these folk about his not being housebroken, they must have thought I was kidding? I have suggested that they only have him in the house under very close supervision (she's a SAHM) so that's a help. He's very used to sleeping outside at night and as they have his dog house, I suggested that he come in during the evening and goes out at night.

M. Serena Lanza
Sr. Payroll Coordinator
National Leisure Group, Inc.
100 Sylvan Road, Suite 600
Woburn, MA 01801
(617) 587-6459 - voice
(617) 587-6329 - fax

>>> Paul Morton <[log in to unmask]> 05/13 1:54 PM >>>
Sorry,  it's easy to understand why no one answered this issue .   It
requires a very l-o-o-o-ong answere.  There is no simple fix-it that I can
think of .  Requires a lot of hard work and disapline on the dog owner's
part. Most dog training books have lengthy chapters on potty training.  I
would go to the book store and find the best and most appropriate book and
buy it and give it to the people who have addopted the dog.  That would be
easier than takeing the dog back!  You know they will soon tire of their new
dog if they can not get this issue resolved, and get rid of him.

Anyone out there have such a book they would recommend?

I once did happen to get a large 4 year old german shepherd that had mostly
been contained in a kennel. I was told that he was house broken but he
wasn't in my book, as I found out once I began liveing with him.  He just
wasn't O.K. alone for a short period or over night in the house.  He would
go fine for a week (give or take), then bang... His bombshell calling card
would be right in the middle of the liveing room!  Hey,  it is one thing to
house break a puppy but cleaning up a mess from a 100 pound full grown dog
is quite another and it really can press your tolerance!
It happens that this dog was also a GSD (That's why I think it appropriate
to tell about him) and I don't want any one to think that GSDs are worse to
house break than other dogs as that is definately not the case.  This dog
happened to be very intelligent by the way.  Some dogs are inherently more
fastidious in nature than others,yes, but consider this just one part of
their make-up, just like any other trait. Good house habbits, in my way of
thinking are not always related to brains.  In Tye's case,  he had been
brought up in a breeding kennel situation that I would question the care and
cleaning of.  He had been allowed into the house but the house was not a
clean house and it had suffered the effects of many a puppy spill and spot.
I suspect that he was not in the house that much,  and any puppy mess had
just been dobbed up and just accepted as part of the deal that goes along
with haveing a million dogs around and who has time to deal with such
issues.
I would like to have left him in my 6 foot fenced in dog run when I could
not supervise him but he very soon took a dislike to it and simply just
leaped out.   I also had a perimeter fence arround a large portion of the
property but it wasn't dog tight and he would wander some at first.  To
house break this dog took nearly two years!  Do realize, though,  that I did
not allow messes to occur.  He also became an out door dog for those two
years for the most part.  Once I caught on to the fact that he had a
problem(maybe I had the problem) I watched him like a hawk when he was at
liberty in the house and made sure either that I caught him in the act of
just thinking about it,or that he was put out frequently.  I did resort to
tieing him up out of doors on a long line and cageing him inside when I
could not watch him.  If he had been in for a while,when I could,  I would
take him for an out door walk together and praise any poops in the propper
place.  Any accidents were cleaned scupulously with an oder neutralizer.
This is done to prevent the dog from returning to the same place, thinking
that is where to go.
Keep in mind that this is done while working full time,  raising a family
and haveing other animals,hobbies and interests.
Yes, it took a long time for Tye to become reliable but when I say reliable,
I mean perfect.  How many of us know folks with some old little cutsie dog
that although they say he is house broken,  will allow that he does
occaisionaly go in the back room to do his buisiness when no one is paying
attention?  That is not house broken in my book!
It is exactly like puppy training only expect it to extend over a longer
period.  Expect frequent back slideing so don't let the guard down.
1.Indoor kennel when not paying attention to dog.  If dog deficates in cage
decrease time in cage to 30 minutes to start and then work up from there.
Keep indoor cage cleaned and removed of oders.
2.Provide out door run where dog is safe and can relax and more importantly,
you can relax while he is there.  If you have to resort to tieing dog up so
be it.  Make a fenced yard or a kennel run a future goal.
3.Watch dog carefully while in house and if you become distracted go to 1.
or 2.
4.Provide schedual of feeding and walks. PRAISE FOR CORRECT RESPONSE.
5.Cllean all messes with an oder neutralizer.

Judy Morton

I would like to add another thing for all puppy raisers/breeders. In my
limited experience, I have found out that the easiest dogs to house break
are the ones raised in a natural setting.  The puppis who simply grow up in
a dog house and are at liberty to go out of doors to do their business.
They learn not to go in the little dog house and to tottle out into the open
air, grass, and dirt.  These are their first habbits.  These habbits follow
them for their lives.  Being raised in a garage or a covered concrete run is
not the same.  Remember, house breaking is a matter of establishing good
habbits.

A friend once told me that he knew someone who was attempting to house train
their puppy.  Eveytime he messed in the house,  they dragged him to the
spot, rubbed his nose in it and then threw him out the door.
Finally,  one day the pup pooped, spun arround,  put his nose to the mess
and then ran out the door! LOL Was he pulling my leg?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Serena Lanza" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: Housebreaking Help Needed


> Nope!
>
> M. Serena Lanza
> Sr. Payroll Coordinator
> National Leisure Group, Inc.
> 100 Sylvan Road, Suite 600
> Woburn, MA 01801
> (617) 587-6459 - voice
> (617) 587-6329 - fax
>
> >>> Kathi Tesarz <[log in to unmask]> 05/12 1:10 AM >>>
>
>  Serena did you ever get any advice on this issue?
> Kathi
>   Serena Lanza <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Apparently, he poops in the house
within minutes of returning from his walk. I have asked for more specifics
from them and haven't heard back yet. This dog has been outside for the past
two years and pooped whenever his little heart desired, I know it will take
some time to re-program his system, but they are getting sick of cleaning up
his huge poops from the floor. I can certainly understand their feelings and
am hoping that they will be willing to keep working at it. It's only been
two weeks, not long enough for any consistency but he doesn't seem to get it
at all. (Like I said before, I've never met a GSD that appeared so "dim").
Any help will be greatly appreciated!
>
> M. Serena Lanza
>
> >>> Kathi Tesarz 05/09 11:24 AM >>>
>
> How long after the walk where the dog has relieved himself does he
deficate in the house? How long is he in the crate when he deficates in
there?
>