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FARMCOLLIE  February 2011

FARMCOLLIE February 2011

Subject:

Re: OFA and Jarratt line was RE: [FARMCOLLIE] Hip dysplasia

From:

Amy Christiansen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Farm Collie Breed Conservancy and Restoration <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:06:24 -0900

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (132 lines)

 Bernese MNN Dogs (my breed)   are VERY affected with hip dysplasia

 the odds being at least one in a litter or if you have none in a litter the next litter will all fail etc....the numbers are out there.   Let me remind you that over 78 % of those deemed "dysplastic"  either hips or elbows. NEVER LIMP!  NEVER go clinical at all..... So ONLY xrays tell you this information no matter what others tell you....

And I agree whole HEARTEDLY with---- its all in the positioning... and the LABELLING of the films... now require micro-chippiong etc... so BEST if your vet is super (UBER) informed on all of it.... EVERY BIT..... prior to the films being taken.... Under 2 years old they get a prelim report. over 2 years old it stands for their life.... I am a vet tech who LEARNED how to position dogs and we took MANY a film on Many a dog prior to getting the SHOT for submittal... find someone who is committed to doing this with you!!   

My puppy owners sign a contract and one clause in our contract is....... that EACH pup will have OFA hips and ELBOW films DONE and they will check OPEN registry on the forms between the ages of 6 months (a prelim) and by the time the dog is 30 months old.  PERIOD.  I remind them all at the age of 2 (when I am doing anyone I have kept from the litter) and offer to send them in as a group at that time.. (there is a deal for this-- see OFA forms) so I gather the last or any hopefull breeding dogs films prior to sending them in as a group...once the litter is 2.  people can opt to do films sooner or later.... Up to them.. I offer ONE time and give them a month to submit to me.......the films get mailed to me....  I get to look at all of them, then submit as a group as breeder of the litter.... 

If they opt to spay or neuter their pup..... the films can be taken at that time --over 6 months old. Less money and the dog is already anesthetized.....  My buyers dont fight with me about this at all.  They are concerned that they may have the dysplastic pup in the litter from the get go.  They understand that I am CAREFUL but cannot predict who will clear and who wont.  Believe me it is a KILLER when the pick of the litter who is a Champion and they are lining up to breed to him for his temperament, type, and movement comes back dysplastic....  he is then OUT of my breeding program... it has happened.... but, with the TRUTH known... he still got to live the life or RILEY   long lived never limping and happy as a NEUTERED pet with his show home...

So, people... the TRUTH is the way to go.......    I cannot blame anyone who does clearances. I mean who has their litters checked, for going forward and breeding the dogs that dont pass, as LONG AS THEY are informed and know the OFA status of the single dog, and that of his parents, sibling, FAMILY......

I do think we should continue to breed the dogs, NOT THE XRAYS, but only going forward with the knowledge and OPEN REGISTRY is going to help get rid of genetic dysplasia.   Many forms of dysplasia are caused by other things as well.........  RUNNING with a BMD pup who is growing is a horrible idea!  Running him or her next to your bike even worse.  Feeding to high protein and fat can also cause many dysplasia...

anyway, I appreciate all you good breeders are trying to accomplish here...... and i still say   breed the dogs not the xrays--, but PLEASE at least know what the xrays ARE prior to breeding!!!  Be informed!  Continue on in a good way.  Try your best.  Be careful who you place with etc etc etc...







> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:48:50 -0800
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [FARMCOLLIE] OFA and Jarratt line was RE: [FARMCOLLIE] Hip dysplasia
> To: [log in to unmask]
> 
> That website is wonderful-I learned a lot from it in the past. What I found was 
> that some people care and take correct xrays and others could care less. So some 
> vets will be offended at the idea of learning from the internet!!!  At my 
> vet hospital I specifically ask that Jill do the xrays. She does the best job 
> possible positioning a dog. The other techs still don't know as much and some of 
> the vets are awful. I walked in to see Maggie's xray results and immediately 
> asked if they had done two. I was told: "No this was the only one and I 
> shouldn't bother sending it in because she has obvious problems and OFA says you 
> should only breed excellents. " I pointed out the poor positioning, and that 
> this was a small population, OFA certainly wouldn't expect all breeding animals 
> to be excellent. The vet got huffy. She was not pleased when I told her to send 
> it in anyway. I wanted to see what OFA would do. 
> 
> The OFA sent back a note and said to rexray in 6 mo as they couldn't rate her at 
> all. Does that tell you something? 
> 
> I had her redone by the good tech and she came out fair. In Maggie's case I 
> think what she really needed was a chiropractic appt.to straighten her up but at 
> least we saw major improvement in positioning so we saw a truer story.
> In the past I have seen xrays of good hips and bad hips and if properly 
> positioned it is fairly easy to see what the results will be. Take photos of the 
> xrays before you send them out!! It can be quite interesting for your records 
> and you can study them alongside the website information. Barbara Hollands
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Merry C. <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 11:56:35 AM
> Subject: [FARMCOLLIE] OFA and Jarratt line was RE: [FARMCOLLIE] Hip dysplasia
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience!  Now the question is how to get my puppy 
> buyers to agree to do OFA... the company suggests pushing for prelims at the 6 
> month vet checkup while the new owners are still freshly concerned about the 
> health of the line, so I guess I'll try that.  *sigh*  One thing I've found here 
> in the Pacific NW is that vets who charge less than $200 for OFA films don't 
> know what they're getting into and don't do a very good job without help.  A 
> country vet I've used for years irradiated my stud dog 7 times to get a decent 
> image only to have the OFA reject it.  So for anyone considering getting OFA 
> films, if your vet doesn't do them very often, make sure they read this page 
> ahead of time: http://leerburg.com/hipart.htm  I could've saved my relationship 
> with that particular vet and Maynard a huge dose to the jewels if I'd just 
> printed that and brought it in.  Live and learn, I guess.  
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I've heard of the Jarratt line!  What is their working type like?  
> :D 
> 
> 
> Merry  
> 
> 
> > Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:01:08 -0500
> > From: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [FARMCOLLIE] Hip dysplasia (was RE: [FARMCOLLIE] MODERATOR! for 
> >Andy Re: Scotch Collie needs a home in OR)
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > 
> > One of the guide dog organizations breeds their own dogs (others get  
> > dogs from select breeders). The one with their own closed selection  
> > has virtually eliminated CHD from their dogs by properly applying OFA  
> > - which basically means xraying all dogs and applying the results  
> > forward.  With OFA the parents and grand parents xrays are important  
> > but so are uncles, aunts, cousins, siblings, and the whole broad  
> > family so results from OFA are slow because you so seldom have enough  
> > datapoints. Still, over time, even poorly applied OFA will bring  
> > results.
> > 
> > I can offer my own experience. My Cally came from un-xrayed parents.  
> > At the time her father's line hadn't been bred on, the dogs and their  
> > owner were quite old and I was afraid this 50 year family line would  
> > disappear (much like farm collie folks worry about the Dunrovin  
> > dogs...). Ultimately Cally's father OFA'd good at 9 or 11 years of age  
> > - so he certainly had some good hips (good hips at 2 years of age is  
> > much easier to get than at 10 once you've put some wear and tear on  
> > them...).
> > 
> > Anyway, Cally had one hip that wasn't great.  I decided to breed her  
> > anyway, to a stud with good hips.  Of the 8 pups only 1 didn't pass  
> > OFA (he prelim'd fair but by the time he was old enough to be  
> > certified he did not pass.). Like his dam it was his left hip that  
> > wasn't good.  One of the OFA good pups was bred and all her pups were  
> > OFA good. The dog with the one bad hip also fathered two litters and i  
> > have a grand pup of his - like her grandfather and great grandmother  
> > her left hip is not as good as her right.
> > 
> > I personally believe in Cally's line (and I've seen this with some  
> > other ES where there's one pup with good hips from a litter with  
> > mostly bad) that her bad hip came from her mother and its  
> > inheritability is pretty predictable - either a dog gets that bad hip  
> > gene or it doesn't and if it doesn't then it's gone from the next  
> > generation. Not all hip problems are so easy to explain or breed away  
> > from. Sometimes it seems to come out of the blue.
> > 
> > The good news about the Jarratt line of dogs is that Russ fathered a  
> > couple more litters as did Cally's brother (OFA Fair, again the left  
> > hip the less good one, but better than Cally's)  and there are still  
> > Jarratt dogs out there carrying on a really great line ES.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
>       
 		 	   		  

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