Linda R,

If I ever get around to it and can find a way to fit your coloring wording
in nicely, may I quote you in my website? I'm not planning on updating
for two weeks at the earliest (studying for Comp exams and going out of
town for a wedding, Blah blah blah, yackety schmackety), but this color
information is so interesting I'd love to put it on the Web.

And if anyone else has something they'd like me to put in my site
(whenever I finally get some down time), I'd be glad to quote you and even
do mailtos and site links for you.

And another note: Has anyone looked at the CKC site very much?
(http://www.ckcusa.com) I've found a lot of interesting breeds there, but
I'm not sure how accurate the listings are. I'm trying to incorporate
some of the info into my site, but I want to make sure it's right first.
For example, I think they have the foxhound listed as a herding breed or
something odd like that.

Su

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On Tue, 6 May 1997 [log in to unmask] wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I had sent this message earlier to Gina and to Smoke's owner, Meg, but for
> some reason it didn't go through and was returned to me, so I thought now
> that Smoke has been announced, I'd post it to the list and add a couple more
> comments.
>
> Linda R.
> Pacifica, CA
>
> Lost post:
>
> Regarding tan points in the Tricolor and the Blue-Merle Collie,
> According to Sharon Vanderlip's book on Collie genetics:
>
> << Tan points may be apparent at birth or may appear gradually after birth,
> reaching full tan coloration and extension by adulthood. The presence of
> tan points at birth or after some time lapse is inherited genetically
> and depends upon the lineage of the animal. >>
>
> My tricolor Shelties appeared as bi-colors at birth. Since the father was a
> bi, I thought I could get some bi's, but apparently the tri dam wasn't
> bi-factored, as they all became tricolors (and tan-marked blue merles) to my
> disappointment. After the first litter, I could tell within a couple of days
> if they were likely to be tries, because there would be the faintest dusty
> markings on the cheeks and under the tail. But it took several weeks for it
> to become plain if you weren't looking for it. In BC's, a lot of the tris
> have very, very faint markings all their lives -- Tex is like this. Unless
> you get close, he looks black and white, but he has faint, pale tan eyedots
> and smudges on his cheeks. He was registered as a tri. In standard Collies
> of course they'd be expecting tris, so would probably, as Gina indicates,
> check the box that was closest in appearance (many people who aren't
> experienced breeders don't know about cryptic blues). Often it's the later
> owner who registers the pup, and if the breeder doesn't tell them the color,
> they check the box that fits. There are a number of people who think sable
> means black (check the dictionary) and tricolor means what we would call a
> shaded sable (it has three colors, of course) -- we've talked about this on
> Sheltie-l.
>
> Linda R.
>
> To elaborate a little further:
>
> Black is usually dominant in dogs, but there is a rarer recessive strain that
> is known to occur in Shelties, GSD's, and apparently, Collies. It may also
> occur in Iceland Dogs.
>
> Black and white has never been specifically faulted in the Collie standard,
> it was just left out during one of the several standard revisions, probably
> because it had become so rare as to virtually disappear. The original Collie
> standard was very broad as to color, and Rawdon Lee's book on the breed (late
> 19th century) mentions black and white as a color. The most recent solid
> reference I had seen to an occurrence of black and white was in an old Collie
> Cues magazine in the 1950's. I had seen a couple of other references here
> and there but couldn't confirm them as true black-and-whites rather than
> tricolors that were being called "black and white" by pet owners.
>
> A sign of possibly carrying the bi-color gene (or rather, gene for absense of
> tan markings) in Shelties is that the tri parent will have tan markings that
> are a bit less extensive, more blended around the edges and almost a duskier
> color than the tris which don't carry the recessive. I have never seen this
> in a Rough Collie, but in speaking to the breeder of my Collie, she said she
> had seen a few (very few) Collies that did seem to have this kind of tan.
>
> The bi-color became very rare in Shelties for awhile, but remained in the
> standard, and in the last 20 years or so the bi-blacks and bi-blues (my
> favorite color) have become well known again.
>
> Linda R.
> Pacifica, CA
>