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Hi Everyone, I'm new to the list and was pleased to find alot of the people that used to post on the farmdog list. I've been reading through the archived messages and was interested in the discussions on herding types and variations within breeds. I have a border collie (Ellie) that I consider laid back. She is content to lay around and is calm and quiet in the house. However if there is work to do she is right there ready to help. She is not so obsessed with herding that she can't be left unwatched but she definately posseses great herding ability and works with typical border collie stance and style. My farm collie (Judah) is a son of Sandra Niedrauers farm collie/shepherd Jacob (Jacob is a full brother to Caitlyn's Jake). He is more laid back than Ellie and possesses alot of the characteristics of the old farm collie (guardian behavior, the ability to think on his own when faced with loose stock etc...) He has more of a relaxed, calm working style and has demonstrated good herding ability for a young dog (he's just one) all with virtually no training. We bred these two in hopes of producing puppies who possess the old farm collie traits. Ellie had a litter of 8 puppies June 6th. There are 5 males and 3 females. Both parents have wonderful temperments. They are exceptional with children (we have 6). We would like to place them in good homes. If any one is interested feel free to e-mail me for more info. I look forward to participating in future discussions (ie. I love talking about my dogs <g> !) Amy Dorsch