I have a Dunrovin's Ol Shep grandson, Robbie (RebelxChesney's Lilly).  He's
a sable pattern white and was bred this year to Moya (from  Rebecca
Wingler's White Oak ES). We plan one more litter next year and then I will
probably have neutered (unless there's someone who has a female who can
bring her to VA). Robbie is having his 9th birthday this month.

Rini


> Dusty, who is it that has those lines?
>
>> There is only one line I know of that does not have the ES in it. The old
>> Dunrovin' line. Some say the smooth collie is a Farm Shepherd, but I like
>> you , remember the old dogs of the 50's that looked quite a bit
>> different.
>> JMHO.
>>
>> Dusty Copeland, CFO
>> Copeland Family Farms, LLC
>> (530) 436-2348
>> www.goatmeats.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Farm Collie Breed Conservancy and Restoration
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Allison Moss-Fritch
>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 1:39 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [FARMCOLLIE] something new--a question
>>
>> I have a question---
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of you on this list raise ES, but you refer to these animals as
>> "Farm
>> Collies"..which I knew and well remember from my childhood.  We must have
>> had 30 or so working farm shepherds, just called, "coalies, collies, or
>> Scotch collies".variously depending on who was speaking.  There were
>> variants on this general type of dog, with Basque versions following
>> their
>> shepherds at heel...and our own dogs behind us.
>>
>>
>>
>> ES is not quite what I remember---though I can't tell you exactly where
>> it
>> is different.  The "Scotch collies" looked sort of like Lassie but
>> smaller
>> with a more open, silky coat, and a MUCH broader head with a marked stop
>> and
>> no "rat snout" as is so often seen today.  I remember either folded or
>> tulip
>> ears---but mostly I remember the behavior which was NOT border collie
>> like,
>> but much more relaxed and gently droving.
>>
>>
>>
>> So are you breeders maintaining ES separately from your farm colllies?
>> Are
>> you interbreeding?  How is this organized?
>>
>>
>>
>> Allison
>>
>>
>>
>> Allison E. Moss-Fritch
>>
>> New Moon Alpacas
>>
>> 350 Cloquallum Road
>>
>> Elma, WA  98541-9440
>>
>> 360/861-8584 home; cell 360/470-9317
>>
>> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>
>> http://www.newmoonalpacas.com <http://www.newmoonalpacas.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Farm Collie Breed Conservancy and Restoration
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of M.L. Church
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 8:18 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [FARMCOLLIE] something new
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a vague memory about one of the English Queens liking spaniels.
>> Blenheim palace, prehaps?  Is it Blemheim or Blenheim?
>>
>> ML
>>
>> --- On Tue, 9/4/12, Mary Peaslee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Mary Peaslee <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: [FARMCOLLIE] something new
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 2:52 PM
>>
>> I've only heard the term used in reference to Cavalier King Charles
>> Spaniels, but the phenomenon (color spot on the forehead/top of skull)
>> happens in a lot of breeds with white markings... I'd have to review my
>> embryology ;-), but I believe there are basically three embryonic groups
>> of
>> melanocytes that fan out to produce pigment on the head of the dog -- one
>> around each ear and one in the middle of the forehead.  In dogs with
>> white
>> spotting, those melanocytes don't cover as much of the surface of the
>> dog...
>> when white areas are larger, the pigmented areas recede in a somewhat
>> predictable manner (ie, the tip of the muzzle is the last area to get
>> pigment as the melanocytes migrate, and the first to lose it when a dog
>> inherits the gene for white spotting ;-).  When there is a lot of white
>> on
>> the head, you may see little "islands" of pigmented fur around the ears
>> and
>> in the middle of the forehead corresponding to the 3 "original" pools of
>> pigment producing cells... the melanocytes in those dogs don't migrate
>> very
>> far from their location of origin ;-).  For whatever reason, the Spaniel
>> people decided to name that forehead spot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mary
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2012, at 2:13 PM, M.L. Church wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't mean I don't see the spot, my eyes aren't that bad - I just don't
>> understand the reference.
>>
>> ML
>>
>> --- On Tue, 9/4/12, Mary Peaslee <[log in to unmask]
>> <[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">http:[log in to unmask]> >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Mary Peaslee <[log in to unmask]
>> <[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">http:[log in to unmask]> >
>> Subject: Re: [FARMCOLLIE] something new
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> <[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">http:[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 1:55 PM
>>
>> Ginger Busta's new pup from Carol Greet has one as well... I don't think
>> Ginger will mind if I attach a photo she recently shared.  Very cute pair
>> :-).  The big guy, Tank, is from Kris Hazelbaker's Mace and Sue Hagle's
>> Mona.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mary
>>
>>
>>
>> <TankandLark.jpg>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Rini wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Very gratifying.
>>
>> And it looks like one of the pups has a Blemheim spot on the top of his
>> blaze; it's the only one I've ever seen on an ES except for Robbie.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rini
>>
>>
>>
>> <Sept3-bellepups.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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