 |
 |
Steve Niedrauer wrote: > > > I always thought the > old time farm collies were trusted around the livestock without supervision, > but maybe I am wrong about this. Would herding dogs ever be trustworthy > around the stock without a human handler present? > In my mind this would depend on alot of factors, including the type of stock and the specific breed of dog, as well as the dog's previous training. Most BCs from working lines would rather herd (anything) than breathe. I personally would never trust my own dogs around stock of any kind without a human handler present. If they sudenly found themselves outside without a human present, there is no doubt in my mind that the first thing they'd do is look for stock to herd - mine or anyone else's - and would herd it to death. The intensity with which BCs take to herding means they just never quit - they would probably "run" livestock to death rather than savage or maul stock. But the end result is the same. Randi Pike has done a lot to educate me to the merits of the modern English Shepherd, a generalist type dog which is capable of performing many of the duties of the old farm collie. Hopefully she'll jump in here and answer your question as it relates to ESs. Other breeds of herding dogs are quite variable, so our respective breed experts on this list, could speak to this issue as it relates to Shelties, Collies, Aussies,etc. > > > How could one use the same dog for guarding as well as herding and being a > general help and companion to the farmer and his family? You have raised the > issues of boundaries and supervision with livestock for a herding dog--would > you see any other issues raised with this scenario? Do you think these issues > could be reconciled, and if so, how? > > There are several breeds whose owners swear that the dog will guard and herd - the Briard and Bouvier come to my mind first. Es owners also insist the breed can be both a guard and herder. Since I use two separate "specialist" breeds to do these two jobs I am not an expert on the dual purpose or generalist type dog - However the idea really appeals to me! Especially since these types of dogs are frequently considered excellent pets and companions as well. My BCs are less than desirable as pets - just too intense. I made this comment to someone not long ago who asked me how I would describe my relationship with my BCs - the only honest answer I could think of was "co-dependent". I've always been interested in the general working farm dog (I'm on this list for that reason) and although I don't believe they're common, they apparently do exist. The issues I raised re: boundary training vs. confinement behind a fence have alot to do with my personal experience no doubt but also have ALOT to do with legal issues. In my state if a dog left it's owners property and subsequently caused damage in some way - killing stock, biting someone, etc. - the owner would be held liable for all damages unless the owner could show "reasonable and responsible attempt" to confine the dog. Boundary training is never recognized by the law as reasonable and responsible. (in my state anyway). A fence is. Melissa