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From:
Elizabeth McCarthy <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
School Information Technology Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sun, 9 Dec 2012 11:42:05 -0500
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GAE as an open system/platform for ePortfolios and daily workflow which allows students to manage their own digital artifacts. With a classroom site and Teacher Dashboard teachers have management tools; with sites they have the ability to post classroom assignments, calendar, hold group discussions, links to resources, post videos (i.e. flipping classroom options) and with TDashboard they can easily access student folders/docs/blogs/eportfolio sites/mail, etc...there is also a parent access to view student material. 
I see it as an open learning management system rather than a box LMS. 

Elizabeth McCarthy, MAT
Technology Integration Specialist
Google Apps for Education Certified Trainer
802-229-0321x5224
________________________________________
From: School Information Technology Discussion [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric Hall [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:25 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LMS in 1:1

Agreed: one of our primary goals for using LMS was to give kids "one place" to find all of their classes and assignments. In a 1:1 environment I believe that effective use of bookmarks/bookmarks bar (and Diigo) can answer many of the needs. The next priority is for parents to be able to access student assignments and calendars. I believe this can be done with Google Calendar as easily as LMS (or perhaps easier,) and I have also floated the idea of students creating their own "learning portal" with a personal Google site. This could then feed into a portfolio/Senior capstone-type process. In that regard the integration of productivity tools (GooApps) and document storage is essential in LMS.


Eric Hall
Technology Integration Specialist
Mount Mansfield Union High School
Chittenden East SU



On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:23 AM, Bjorn Behrendt <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

One other factor is that in a 1:1 computers are used differently than in an online or blended class.

Bjorn Behrendt
http://www.EdLiaten.com/
http://www.AskBj.net/
http://www.VTed.org/

On Dec 8, 2012 8:42 PM, "Eric Hall" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
This is definitely not a "choose your own adventure" situation. In terms of support and consistency it certainly makes sense for those using LMS to use the same one! What I question is whether it is necessary for everyone within a learning community to do so. "Systems" do not fit everyone's needs and style, and I see many people who prefer more flexibility (and less clutter) and are thus using the Google suite instead. My hope is that we can set an expectation for "online classrooms" that gives teachers some choice and flexibility without limiting options or widening them so far that support is difficult.

Ultimately I think the tension we are experiencing is not the LMS that was chosen, but rather the growing pains of folks who are new to "working digitally" with their students. Making the jump from no online presence to an LMS is a substantial shift, and the expectation that assignments will be delivered and (in most cases) collected electronically can take some time to adjust to. I suspect we would be hearing the same feedback regardless of which LMS was chosen, and I believe Edu 2.0 was chosen by early-adopters as an "easier system" than the existing Moodle environment. One reason the decision is now being revisited is that the context is now an entire 1:1 community and not just a handful of folks who may be using it.


Eric Hall
Technology Integration Specialist
Mount Mansfield Union High School
Chittenden East SU



On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Charlie MacFadyen <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi Eric,
I understand what you're saying about using a variety of tools generally, but the very point of a learning management system is that it's a...well, system.  Isn't that why you were asking the question to begin with? Or are you thinking that each teacher and class would work with whichever LMS suits them best? I don't mean that sarcastically-- I'm really curious whether people feel that this works.
Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 7, 2012, at 3:56 PM, Eric Hall <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

Charlie -

In terms of different level of use, using the same tool in different ways or using multiple tools I would argue that it may be a challenge and even (initially) inconvenient for students but perhaps ultimately a more valuable learning experience. I think of the challenge that many adults have moving from Microsoft Office to LibreOffice or Google Docs: If kids only experience "one way" and/or a limited number of tools, will they be developing the sort of technological fluidity we want them to have in a fast-changing landscape? Tools WILL change, so we should be teaching them how to adapt and learn new tools efficiently vs. tailoring to the negative feedback. I believe this is even reflected in the NETS somewhere...

Until recently I always thought that it was the adults who had more difficulty with change for a variety of reasons, and that kids were pretty flexible. It has been interesting to encounter a similar resistance to change and inflexibility on the part of many older students! I have told some that they are much to young to sound like stick-in-the-mud adults...


Eric Hall
Technology Integration Specialist
Mount Mansfield Union High School
Chittenden East SU



On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 8:47 AM, Charles MacFadyen <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
The tension that I see arising within LMS use is between the convenience of the "one-stop shop" and the flexibility of using the best tool for each particular function.  We use Moodle at CVU (I'll fill out the form soon), and one complaint students have is that some teachers use it regularly and others don't.  It seems sometimes that they would prefer either everyone or no one to use the LMS, but not something in between!




On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Eric Hall <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Matt -

I looked, but couldn't find info on SCHOOL-IT from previous conversations or LMS comparisons. Could you share again? Thanks!

Eric Hall
Technology Integration Specialist
Mount Mansfield Union High School
Chittenden East SU



On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Matt Henchen <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
A few quick points:


 1.  The LMS smackdown was focused purely on functionality and not on any particular tool.  In fact, anybody who was involved in the process could tell you that we began by brainstorming and prioritizing a list of functions first...
 2.  I have never heard anybody advocate for a "one size fits all" tool, which will meet all of our digital needs - that idea is completely ridiculous.  However, I have personally advocated for a 'one size fits all' system for managing classroom resources, grading, assessment, and data management.  Of course, we could always use a 'suite' of tools to get the job done, but then we are adding complexity to the system.  The reality is that classroom teachers do not have the time to use multiple tools to get the job done.  Every teacher I have talked to appreciates the idea of one system that can be used to post assignments and resources, grade and assess, and transmit assessment data automatically to whatever agency needs it.  However, with that said, the use of an LMS was never meant to be an end unto itself,  but rather a beginning.  The LMS was meant to be a springboard for teachers, students, and parents - they have ALWAYS been meant to be used with other digital tools.

The one thing I can agree with Eric on here is that there is not, currently, a system that will meet all of our needs.  However, rather than quilting together another 'suite' of tools that we can stumble along with for a few more years, why don't all the schools interested in using a truly comprehensive LMS get together and put some pressure on the developers of some of the leading LMS?  As many of you know, the developer of Edu20 has offered many times to develop functions to our specs and I am sure the developers of the other leading LMS systems would do the same.


On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Eric Hall <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
I know we've batted this around a few times, but... the selection of an LMS (currently Edu 2.0) has come into question at our school, and we are now revisiting the choice of a digital classroom environment (eg. stick or switch). Concurrently, we are also exploring how to balance the functions on an LMS with the use of Google Apps as a productivity suite.

I am working hard to make this a conversation about "digital functionality" vs. an LMS smackdown: backing away from the tools and focusing on the goals first. To that end I have begun to list the functions of digital classrooms<https://docs.google.com/a/cesuvt.org/document/d/1XenVusOw4k3vBWBbqm_7vg6HqTzUPTPzTJ-OCuoTaPw/edit> that meet the goals of teachers, students, parents and Administration (the four "stakeholders" in this process.) This is an open document, so feel free to add your thoughts!

Personally, I am not convinced that there IS a system that meets ALL needs well, and I advocate for a hybrid approach: using multiple tools (limited in number for support and consistency) each for their strengths. That said, we also need to consider the LMS's that are available as part of the solution.

If you have a moment to complete this brief survey<https://docs.google.com/a/cesuvt.org/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDZiXzNMY0gtbHlId19OUzAydURNUEE6MQ>, it would be appreciated. The full results are here<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmH4x6D8GsFedDZiXzNMY0gtbHlId19OUzAydURNUEE> for others involved in similar discussions.

Thanks,


Eric Hall
Technology Integration Specialist
Mount Mansfield Union High School
Chittenden East SU



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Matt Henchen
History/Civics Teacher
Harwood Union Middle/High School
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Charlie MacFadyen
Technology Integration Specialist
Champlain Valley Union HS
Hinesburg, VT
(802) 482-7117<tel:%28802%29%20482-7117>



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