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SKIVT-L  December 2001, Week 4

SKIVT-L December 2001, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Moral Question

From:

Tag Gross <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Vermont Skiing Discussion and Snow Reports <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 26 Dec 2001 16:34:11 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (98 lines)

Uh, Ben, I didn't ignore anything that Nick said but it seems you have added
about 99.9% of things that I never said or inferred. Nowhere in my post did
I address the moral issue. The simple fact is that not only is Nick's 99.9%
statement wrong but your statement that "Fact of the matter is, from
wherever a skier is standing on-trail, in-bounds, there is a perfectly
safe, albeit perhaps long and humiliating, way down.  100% of the time." is
wrong as well. What really surprises me is that 2 apparently experienced
skiers would make blanket statements like that without considering the
conditions. Conditions and weather are the 2 most critical factors that can
effect the safety of skiing whether in or out of bounds. Most people do not
realize that they are in over their heads until it is potentially too
difficult for them to extricate themselves. In fact they may not ever
realize it until it is too late.  To go back to the MS Ripcord point. Second
thoughts does not do you much good if you are at the top pitch and feel you
can handle it and then find yourself on the steep with no way out. Second
Thoughts also did not do the would be patroller much good either because he
fell right at the top and due to the slick conditions was unable to self
arrest and went to the bottom. He was reportedly taking 20 feet of air over
each bump he hit as he neared the bottom.

You also wrote:  "I have
yet to see a non-glade trail that is in-and-of-itself dangerous.  It's the
skiers and their ability/control that adds the element of danger."

I am all for skiers accepting responsibility for their actions but this is a
silly way to frame the argument. Walking on a street is  "in-and-off-itself
not dangerous" until a car comes along and hits you.

And as for this:
"Nick's right on this one.  In bounds, unless you see that they are
injured, you have no moral obligation or need to assist.  In the
backcountry, it's a different matter (so long as you, by helping, do not
place your own self in jeopardy)."

I'm not sure why the unprepared over their head out of bounds slider is
afforded more leeway than the in bounds guy. To me they are equally guilty
of being unprepared and making poor decisions. I would hope that we in the
spirit of the camaraderie and fellowship of our sport would help anyone
anywhere in need.


Tag


-----Original Message-----
From: Vermont Skiing Discussion and Snow Reports
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Benjamin T. Kulas
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 12:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [SKIVT-L] Moral Question


Uh, Tag, you ignored 99.9% of what Nick said.  Fact of the matter is, from
whereever a skier is standing on-trail, in-bounds, there is a perfectly
safe, albeit perhaps long and humiliating, way down.  100% of the time.  If
the Ripcord you
refer to is Mt. Snow's - well, there's "Second Thoughts" at the top of the
steep pitch, for those for whom the pitch or condition of Ripcord are too
much.  As for the Cascade "slide for life," did the lady suffer injuries
and/or perish?  Could she have walked down the side of the trail?  I have
yet to see a non-glade trail that is in-and-of-itself dangerous.  It's the
skiers and their ability/control that adds the element of danger.

Nick's right on this one.  In bounds, unless you see that they are
injured, you have no moral obligation or need to assist.  In the
backcountry, it's a different matter (so long as you, by helping, do not
place your own self in jeopardy).

Ben K.

On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Tag Gross wrote:

> Nick wrote:
> The fact is, if you're on in-bound terrain at a ski area chances
> are 99.9% that the terrain is not dangerous.  Any skier or boarder can
> sideslip, stumble, slide or walk down a trail that is beyond their
ability.
>
>
> This statement is 99.9% inacurate. Even here in the East especially on ice
> there are many runs that are very dangerous. 2 examples come to mind. The
> woman who did the slide for life down Cascade and the would be patroller
who
> lost an edge while standing still and bounced his way down Ripcord to a
> helicopter evac. The number of runs inbounds out west where serious death
or
> injury could result are too numerous to mention.

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