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SKIVT-L  December 2001, Week 4

SKIVT-L December 2001, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Moral Question

From:

Tag Gross <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Vermont Skiing Discussion and Snow Reports <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:54:38 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (156 lines)

First of all Ben, I am not confusing any issue.


>>Check out the egos on
the World Cup, for example.<<

And you have checked these out exactly how? Through news reports and TV
shows. You don't know anyone on the world cup and you certainly don't know
what they are really like. The interesting thing about skiing that I have
found over the last 40 years is that in fact the GREAT skiers do not have an
ego and do not exclude others and are very willing to share the experience
with others even those who might not be at their ability. I base this on my
own personal experiences having skied with skiers  like Stu Campbell, Pepi
Stiegler, Jean-Luc Gibbasier, Jean Claude Killy, Glen Plake, Shane McConkey
etc etc. It's a long list and many remain my friends. That's the beauty of
skiing that it creates a lifelong bond with people you SHARE it with. It is
rather people who are new to the sport who are stuck in the trying to prove
something mode that that have out of control egos.

This reminds me of something that has been completely lost in our sport and
Skip pointed it out in his post:

"Back then, skiers
would look out for one another...   It helped me to learn the
etiquette of the sport and gain greater respect for the mountains."

Looking down our noses at those with less skill than us, Yelling "get out of
my line". Judging whether someone is "worthy" of skiing in the great state
of Vermont. It's all BS and not apart of the ski community that I know and
love. Look at this exchange:

> Humor.  I'm not sure if you'll find it at Wal-Mart (you might - I just
> avoid shopping there b/c it ruins towns),
Just like snowboarders and the weekend masses of touron skiers ruin good ski
trails.      Jimski<<

Sure it's supposed to be funny but it comes from an underlying attitude that
somehow there are certain skiers who are better and somehow more deserving
than others. And this is where a lot of your rational regarding the 99.9
argument comes from Ben. The I am superior and these morons should know
better so screw them. It's not the trails or conditions its the people. I
did find the perfect analogy for you in defense of your argument:

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people."

If you are: "poor and
can't afford multi-day trips to the great areas of the world." Then I am a
bit curious as to how you are able to make the broad sweeping statements
that you have made in your recent posts about skiing. From terrain to
conditions to individuals you seem to be quite the worldly skier.









-----Original Message-----
From: Vermont Skiing Discussion and Snow Reports
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Benjamin T. Kulas
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 8:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [SKIVT-L] Moral Question


On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, Leigh Daboll wrote:

> I'm with Tag on this one Ben.

You and Tag are confusing the issue.  One the one hand there was a
specific question asking for moral guidance.  Personally (and if I weren't
presently in Pine I'd check out the original post) I think the person who
initiated the thread did the right thing.  Of course Erica has the bet
advice.  On the other hand there was the dispute over Nick's claim that
99.9% of America's ski trails are not inherently life-threatening.  See
his most recent post for the definitive, case-closing response.


> Ben, the real moral of the story is this.  Great skiers don't constantly
> brag and huff about how much smarter and better they are than less
> experienced skiers.

Bullshit.  You can be an asshole and a great skier.  Check out the egos on
the World Cup, for example.  _Good people_ (including those who are
skiers) don't brag or seek to elevate themselves by attempting to lower
others.  I am neither, though I strive to be both (Good person &
great skier, that is).

>  They don't reflexively slag boarders in response to a
> serious (and not "skier vs boarder") moral question.

99.99% of the time intended with a light-hearted sense of humor which is
often the spirit of my posts.  If you haven't tried humor before, I
recommend it.  It's fun. (I think sarcasm is too, if you haven't already
noticed (I'm a wise-ass, as well - come on you must have learned that by
now!))

>  They don't ensure that
> nearly every post they make about, say, trips they have planned pointedly
> exclude all the "less experienced skiers".

I never pointedly exclude others, but I will admit to a desire to
challenge myself.  It's the only way I'll ever have the chance of
approaching the ability of those like Jerm, my Evil Twin, Marc Giradelli,
etc.  And I like to push myself.  And I won't apologize.  I could bitch
and moan about posts that pointedly exclude those of us that are poor and
can't afford multi-day trips to the great areas of the world.  But I don't
and won't.

I do also enjoy skiing with my dad (a perpetual beginner) and
sister
(just learning how to ski) quite a bit.  Why no posts from me about this?
Because I joined the list after my last weekend with them last winter.

>They don't brag about tucking
> Tuckerman's [whatever] run.

I never have tucked Tucks or any other b/c run.  I like to savor them.  I
have however, joked about this.  See bit above about humor.

> I would be, frankly, ashamed to wear the plaid if I were to be seen
blowing
> off anyone in obvious need of assitance - inbounds, out of bounds, or in a
> slippery parking lot for that matter.

I would feel ashamed period - plaid or no plaid.  Again, see Erica's
wisdom.

> Fortunately, the people on this list are better than that, even if some of
> them insist on continuing to use that ridiculous boarder-speak "ph" for
"f"
> phraseology long after it's cute stage was over.
>
Humor.  I'm not sure if you'll find it at Wal-Mart (you might - I just
avoid shopping there b/c it ruins towns), but if you passing through
Brattleboro one of these days, stop by.  I'd be glad to share some of
mine.

Leigh, despite the harsh nature of my email, I harbor no hard feelings.
Not even close.  But people (and not just on this list) do need to lighten
up, myself included.

Ben K.

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