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SKIVT-L  May 2002, Week 3

SKIVT-L May 2002, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Dog with a bone........

From:

Tag Gross <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Vermont Skiing Discussion and Snow Reports <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 19 May 2002 21:42:37 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (121 lines)

Re: Geoff:

A complete fool....no. But you're missing my point and not makng a real
comparison. SLC is a major international city only in the minds of the
people who,live there. What is the population of SLC 200,000? All of Utah is
what 2 million? Montreal alone is over 2 million? Hey I might be wrong about
these numbers but I think I'm close. I've also seen plenty of mob scenes in
Utah. Park City can be a real mess or how about some of those lines at the
Snowbird Tram! Yeah yeah, I know you know where to go to avoid the lines
which is of course exactly my point.

If I am planning a trip then I consider when the crowds will be there. For
example: Squaw Valley is located near a major international city, San
Francisco. If I plan a trip to Squaw I try to do it so that I travel in on a
Sunday and depart on the Saturday. That way my major ski days are all mid
week. So in the case of Tremblant, I am not going to ski there on a weekend
or holiday. That's a draw back of that area and it is certainly more of an
issue than anything in Utah. If I live near a ski area and am going up for
weekends then this falls into a different category then a major family
vacation. Weekend family areas are an entirely different breed. Places like
Bromley or Belleayre are really the kinds of places geared toward families
for a weekend that you can feel comfortable turning your kids loose but they
are not going to satisfy people for a ski week.


Quoth M. Reagan
>it's that soft
snow and elbow room *are* readily available in New England<

I never said that they were not available in New England. It just seems
silly to me to get on a plane and come to New England to ski if that is what
you are looking for. I suppose that the likes of Alta, Squaw, Sun Valley,
Taos, Jackson, Whistler etc etc. don't have enough "character" to compete
with New England skiing for some on the list but in my never humble opinion
there is nothing in the East that can even begin to touch just these areas
that I mentioned.

>Amazing how rejecting mass-market product, rejecting
expensive amenities, or stating an honest opinion that perhaps that
old ways are better way can now be "elitist."<

It's not that rejecting these is in and of itself elitist, it's that this
rejection is often tied to the notion that grooming, snowmaking, amenities
are for skiers who are somehow not our peers or equals and who do not have
the same kind of appreciation for the sport. This is a type of elitism and
complete BS. If you don't think this is true then I suggest you reread some
of the posts made here on a variety of subjects. Let me make it clear that I
am not saying this is true for everyone who rejects modernization. But the
same people that are so quick to blast the technological advances and
amenities at resorts have also never strapped on a pair of wooden skis in
their lives and are willing to discuss ad nauseam various types of equipment
and setups that have all been made possible by modernization. Of course none
of the equipment advances would ever have been made if it had not been
profitable to do so because of the "mass-market"ing of skiing. It's not so
much that you are a dirt bag snob than a poser. Come to think of it why
don't we go back to pre Minnie Dole days and you'll have yet another use for
duct tape.

>>For a while, touting snowmaking, grooming, size, lodging, and amenities as
the hallmark of
a "superior" resort was the ultimate snobbery--especially since these
add-ons meant premium pricing.<<

Actually offering people of different means and abilities varied choices was
inclusive. The majority of ski areas can not even break even operating as
just ski areas. Without different "amenities" as revenue streams you can
kiss good bye some of your favorite places and you will see ticket prices
rise even more sharply. How many co-ops do you think skiers can support in
New England? I think the answer is barely 1.

>>Now this sort of Vailized(tm) or Ottened experience has become the norm,
with corresponding price
expectations.<<

Otten's role as an innovator is way overrated. His only impact on the sport
was his picking up and running with another broke ski area owner, Alan
Fleishman's idea of the time share. But with that said I think that Sunday
River is much better off today then pre Otten. But why stop at Vail and
Otten, why not throw Cushing, Bass and McCoy (just to name a few) in their
too? I guess the only owner suitable to you would be someone like Betsy
Pratt who took Roland's idea and managed to run it into the ground in less
than 20 years.


As far as personal attacks, there is nothing personal in any of this. Marc
touts his magazine here all the time. He's a journalist. What he has written
here and what he wrote in his review of Tremblant don't jive. He even said
that the reason he had not posted the "crowd" pick in his original article
was out of respect for intrawest.




-----Original Message-----
From: Vermont Skiing Discussion and Snow Reports
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Geoff Devine
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:51 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [SKIVT-L] Dog with a bone........


Tag Gross suggests:
> Only complete fools would plan a ski vacation to a ski area that
> is 70 minutes away from a major interenational city for a weekend
> or holiday.

Then I'm a complete fool.  The major ski resorts in Utah are all less than
70 minutes away from a major international city.

Geoff

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