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SKIVT-L  May 2002, Week 3

SKIVT-L May 2002, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Dog with a bone........

From:

Tag Gross <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Vermont Skiing Discussion and Snow Reports <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 20 May 2002 09:46:14 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (196 lines)

>>You're right- >snip<Some North Shore locals I've met along the way have
shown me some great "private" stashes,>snip< Still, this isn't representive
of Tahoe as a whole.>snip< I got my first "who
the f&*# are you?!?" on my second near-bounds excursion into "private"
stashes.<<

First of all this whole concept of private stashes that is perpetuated on
this very list is sickening and antithecal to anything related to skiing
especially old school skiing. I am sure that there has been more than one
incident of members of this very list behaving in a similar manner and
giving the stink eye to someone else in their "private stashes". There was
also a very memorable story that I believe Jerm told about his encounter
with a Stowe local while hiking. So how you jump from an encounter with one
jerk to stereotyping all of Tahoe is beyond me and ridiculous. I suggest you
read Jerm's story and then you can have the same opinion of people who ski
Stowe.

>> Perhaps I'm not X-treem enough to share those kewl lines?  I
expected to meet random ski partners at the entrances to interesting shots.
Nah, just frowning folks who won't make eye contact. <<

In all seriousness from reading your posts you really seem to have some self
esteem issues. How can someone "frowning" even impact a ski run. Just push
by with a big smile on your face and say "how ya doin".

>>Perhaps at the front desk, but luckily it's easy to avoid the parts you
don't like.<<

Oh ok but it's not possible to do the same at an area like Tremblant?

>>Or, if they suggest that
resorts that don't aspire to such fame just "don't compare."<<

What are you talking about? Is building amenities for guests an aspiration
to fame? Let me dash off a letter to Pierre and Martine Carrier to let them
know how they have ruined Chamonix by building a nice hotel there. You don't
think that MRG aspires to a certain amount of fame? Read the bumper sticker
on the back of your car. But of course you didn't answer my question. How
and why did you make an assocaition between Snobs and Vail?

>All the folks who aren't even aware of the non-glitzy aspect of skiing.
They also miss the spiritual aspect you mentioned.<

Who are all of these folks? How do you know they even exist? This is just a
bunch of judgemental crap. How do you know what people are or are not aware
of? FYI, "glitz" as you call it has always been a part of ski culture from
the very begining.

>They also miss the spiritual aspect you mentioned.<

How the hell do you know? When I was skiing powder all day in the trees at
Le Edge with my 7 year old right in my track was my day any less spiritual,
meaningful or fun because there are colorful banners, a big Summit lodge,
snowmaking, a well designed development at the base or a heated pool at the
Westin. Of course not. And this is the point. A well designed development is
not going to necessarily diminish the ski expereince and for some people it
will enhance it. What's wrong with that?

The level of your arrogance is quite astonishing. Are you in your mid 20's
Matt? And yet you seem to know all about what other people are missing and
what a real ski expereince is like not just for you but what it should be
for others. I can only hope that you remain holed up at MRG or in the
backcountry somewhere so that skiers in whatever form they take and enjoying
the sport in whatever way they like don't have to encounter this kind of
prejudice.


-----Original Message-----
From: Vermont Skiing Discussion and Snow Reports
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Matthew Reagan
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 3:07 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [SKIVT-L] Dog with a bone........


On Mon, 20 May 2002 00:32:59 -0400, Tag Gross <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>Wow, I have never found any of the attitude you describe in Tahoe. In fact
>my experiences out there are completely the opposite. I also have many
>friends in skiing who are part of the extreme now free skiing culture and
>they are very down to earth despite their fame and abilities.

-the Tahoe rock stars seem to be great bunch of people.  My
Truckee-Tahoe local friends were nice enough to introduce me to a few, and
told me great things about others.  How could you ski for a living and not
be fun to be around?  Some North Shore locals I've met along the way have
shown me some great "private" stashes, too, on the unofficial side of
special red ropes.

  The same Alpine and
Northstar staff who were nice enough to show me around also lamented the
same problems.  I understand there are other forces at work in CA that
contribute, but still, it's disappointing.  Despite showering before most
ski days (unless I happened to couch crash somewhere), I got my first "who
the f&*# are you?!?" on my second near-bounds excursion into "private"
stashes.   Perhaps I'm not X-treem enough to share those kewl lines?  I
expected to meet random ski partners at the entrances to interesting shots.
Nah, just frowning folks who won't make eye contact.  I found a more
comfortable attitude among the tele community, and hence I ski with those
folks most of the time.  Having a private group of ski friends is important,
but having a broader sense of community is just as important.

A subset of Tahoe culture--check out what's been happening at Kirkwood the
past few years...there's a place at the mountain/"resort" crossroads.

>If your idea of a great time is whacking
>through puckerbrush well then your right back east is the place for you.

Puckerbrush is fun.  So is powder, so is ice, and so is getting a good scare
on the Palisades.  But hey, since it's a foregone conclusion for most that
West is Best and those Eastern fools are freezing in icy darkness, perhaps a
little puckerbrush cheerleading is in order.  A waste of time, perhaps, but
hey, we're not saving the world through skiing!

>I thought if I have any brain cells left that MRG was
>founded as sort of an anti Stowe.

Perhaps at the front desk, but luckily it's easy to avoid the parts you
don't like.  Stowe is wonderful that you can choose between two very
different types of skiing.  Also, the previous discussion about Stowe
town-mountain development politics were enlightening Re: why you don't hear
as much about "McStowe" as you do about "K-Mart."

>With all due respect,I don't think that at this point in my life
>that I need to be shown anything about skiing.

That doesn't sound like very much fun!

>It's inside me and I share it with
>those that I make turns with wherever I am. I don't need a Stowe or MRG to
>serve as a security blanket for me.

Hey--how about a Green Plaid security blanket?   Better than a secret
handshake!

>Why would someone saying Vail is best make them a snob?

No, not unless they write off mountains that lack a certain level of
amenities, snowmaking gizmos, or media exposure.  Or, if they suggest that
resorts that don't aspire to such fame just "don't compare."

>Who is only seeing the resort aspect?

All the folks who aren't even aware of the non-glitzy aspect of skiing.
They also miss the spiritual aspect you mentioned.  Many on this list may,
in their humble opinion, think this correlates with the sort of development
they don't like.

Of course, this flame war probably won't end, since it all comes down to
different people backing their arguments with different values.

>Despite all of this back and forth with various people no one has been able
>to tell me how this has affected the ski experience negatively.
. . .
Oh please.  Nobody get upset at touron dress (even if it's funny as hell at
times).  Even the Poconos are fun to ski (to a point) even though they can't
compare to VT which can't compare to CA, which...  It can affect one's
experience negatively if one comes to ski and can't get it the way they like
it.  Is it so awful to say "the new development sucks?"  And hey, isn't
flaming people far worse than slagging corporate culture?  You won't
accumulate bad karma hurting the latter's feelings.

>Is this serious? You're not really that full of it are you? This is really
>some delusion. Your not only skiers but preservationist. Fill in your
>Sitzmark!!!

I say you're a fool not to be a preservationist, if you have the opportunity
preserve what YOU like.  Nothing worse than knowing what you want, having
the money to pay for it, and finding it's not available.

>*wink* ok we'll keep them off the good stuff.

Oh, come on!  Geez, so asking for a couple ungroomed, puckerbrushy shots is
"keeping them off the good stuff?"  I just don't get this at all.  An online
community introduces dozens of strangers to all sorts of off-the-trail-map
terrain and people still complain about "private *wink* stashes."  Man,
after a dozen years of internet time-killing I still don't understand this
sort of flaming.  I shouldn't let it push my "send email" button.

Enough.  Time to prepare for four days of high alpine backcountry skiing,
which [don asbestos] is inherently better than a vacation at a destination
resort. :-)

-Matt
http://reagan.mitoc.org/

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April 2005, Week 3
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March 2005, Week 4
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