LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Archives


SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Archives

SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Archives


SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE@LIST.UVM.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Home

SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Home

SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE  July 2005

SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE July 2005

Subject:

Re: Fahrenheit 2777

From:

George Salzman <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Science for the People Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 14 Jul 2005 11:11:27 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (109 lines)

Hi Phil,

      I asked you four questions. You responded in an evasive way to 2 and
1/2 of them, as I will explain. My inquiry to you was:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Phil Gasper,

      You post a lot of articles without any comments of your own. I would
appreciate it if you let us know your thoughts and why you believe that such
and such an article is worth reading. I have four questions motivated by
your post of Michael Shermer's article.

1. Do Shermer's views on 9/11 agree, more or less, with yours?

2. Do you believe the Warren Commission report that JFKennedy was shot by a
single assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, i.e. that all the "conspiracy theorists"
are full of shit?

3. Do you believe that FDR planned to get the U.S. into WWII and prevented
the commanders at Pearl Harbor from receiving information about the
approaching Japanese attack armada?

4.Do you think the Bush cabal conspired to get the U.S. to attack Iraq?

Sincerely,
George
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Your response was:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
To 1. I don't know what Shermer's views are, apart from his rejection of
the wilder conspiracy theories.

To 2. Like Chomsky, I think it's a political waste of time to be obsessed
about the Kennedy assassination.

To 3. Yes to the first part of this question. Robert Stinnett makes the
case for an affirmative answer to the second part in Day of Deceit,
but most other historians find his argument unconvincing.

To 4. For my views about the underlying motivations for the Iraq war see
http://www.isreview.org/issues/27/gamble.shtml.

--PG
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 1, you simply avoided answering what was the clear intent of my question,
as indicated by the earlier sentence, "I would appreciate it if you let us
know your thoughts and why you believe that such and such an article is
worth reading." If all you learned from Shermer's piece is that he rejects
"the wilder conspiracy theories", that means you think his article merely
set up a "straw horse" and went on to demolish it. Why would that be worth
posting, with the implicit suggestion that it's worth our effort to read it?

On 2, you ignored my question about the Warren Commission "finding" that
there was no conspiracy -- just lonely Lee Harvey Oswald. I ought to assure
you that I am not obscessed with trying to dissect the conspiracy, which I
am convinced existed. I asked whether YOU think there was no conspiracy, and
you just told me Chomsky's view, with which I have long agreed. Another evasion.

On 3, you did answer the first part of that compound question directly --
thank you -- but in your response to the second part you declined to say
what YOU think. I know it is difficult for most liberals to even consider
the possibility that FDR actively conspired to allow the Japanese assault on
Pearl Harbor to succeed, but I believe that is what happened. Unfortunately
I don't know enough of the detailed history of those events to say more than
that it is my belief (rather than assurance that it is a fact), but I'm
quite certain that if I could do the research I would affirm as fact my
belief. I think I.F.Stone's view that ALL governments lie is correct, and
that FDR arranged for a massive cover-up to be effected immediately after
the attack.

On 4, I scanned your article and found myself in agreement. It's a good
effort to contribute to our understanding of the historical conditions in
which we live. In particular, you wrote,

"Though many liberals are loathe to admit it, the U.S. is not just a
superpower, it is the world’s preeminent imperialist nation."

"Whatever the precise course of events, there’s one thing we do know. Bush’s
plans for war will mean the slaughter of tens of thousands abroad and
continuing attacks on living standards and civil liberties at home. Whether
the administration can get away with this will depend on the level of
opposition that develops in the Middle East, around the world, and crucially
here in the U.S. itself. The antiwar movement of the 1960s and 1970s played
a crucial role in defeating U.S. imperialism in Vietnam and demonstrating
that the world’s biggest superpower was not invincible. Over the past few
months we have seen the impressive growth of a new antiwar movement in this
country. The urgent task before U.S. is to build it bigger and stronger to
demonstrate that U.S. imperialism is no more invincible today."

      It may be a futile hope of mine that we privileged academics will ever
do more than contribute to the cause of enlightenment. But as one of my
daughter-out-laws wrote me once, "Enlightenment is not a worthy goal." My
hope is that enlightenment is a necessary prerequisite to figuring out what
to do, but that after we do figure out how to act, we will then take action.
Unless we do, all the learned explorations and scholarship are in the end
valueless in so far as making the world a decent livable place for the vast
majority of the world's people.

      Finally, dismissing "conspiracy theorists" as crackpots is precisely
what the corporate media and the government "spokespersons" -- the hired
professional liars -- do in their efforts to legitimize the totally
illegitimate dominant power structures.

With all good wishes, and hoping for a direct response in place of continued
evasion, I remain

Sincerely,
George

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
May 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LIST.UVM.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager