A few of us clerks met with the tax department
(last year?) about their plan to have the PTTR's
filed electronically by the attorneys. The idea
was that they would fill them out online, pay
online, and print some sort of acknowledgement
that they would then submit to us with the deed,
and the online system would not accept the filing
without all of the information being filled out,
including the span # or parcel #. We suggested
that the acknowledgement look like the form that
we have now, so we would still get the
information that we need, minus SSN's. I'm not
sure where they are in the process, but it can't come a moment too soon!
-Bobbi
At 10:22 AM 4/26/2007, you wrote:
>Perhaps we can have this discussion over the
>summer and try to come up with a specific
>proposal that makes sense. I will work with the
>clerk's association to find a good time. Deb Markowitz
>
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: Annette Cappy <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Vermont Municipal Government
>Discussion Network<[log in to unmask]>
>Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 08:33:41 -0400
>
> >Signatures on PTTR'sI agree, Susie. This
> would be a good time to put some thoughts
> together to revamp a system that I think has
> been broken for years! Count me in!
> >
> >Annette Cappy
> >Brattleboro
> >[log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Town of Wilmington
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 5:46 PM
> > Subject: Signatures on PTTR's
> >
> >
> > Dear Ann - I also do not sign the PTR
> acknowledgement, nor do I sign the
> Acknowledgement stamp that I affix to the
> deeds. I do not mind indicating the date a PTR
> came in on the stamp. I do not believe that it
> is my job to understand everything about
> certificates and Act 250 Disclosures in order
> to sign off that all was properly in place at
> the time of recording. I totally agree that
> the there should be a place filled in by the
> attorney/representative indicating what Tax ID
> number is being transferred. It is also not my
> job to be able to read a legal description to
> figure it out. I had this conversation with
> Charlie Merriman just prior to his leaving PVR,
> and think it would be a good discussion for
> some clerks and PVR and perhaps the Sec'y of
> State to engage in. The system sure needs
> improving - since it has come up, it seems like
> now is a good time to address it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Susie Haughwout
> > Wilmington Town Clerk
> > P.O. Box 217
> > Wilmington, VT 05363
> > 1-802-464-5836 Phone
> > 1-802-464-1238 Fax
> > [log in to unmask]
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ann Webster
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: Signatures on PTTR's
> >
> >
> > Deb, this sounds like a very good idea to
> have a letter that states exactly which boxes
> need to be completed in order for a PTR to be
> acceptable, but I have a concern that that may
> be interpreted that any box that is not
> included in the list may freely be left blank.
> Blank boxes sometimes create quite a bit of
> time for a clerk to identify exactly what
> property is being transferred. We also must
> deal with the fact that many times information
> is filled in that turns out to be incorrect,
> such as mailing address following closing, Box
> C Property Location, etc. Also, I do not sign
> the Town Clerk Acknowledgement at the bottom. I
> complete the information requested, but I do
> not sign as that seems to be acknowledging that
> I take responsibility for all required
> certificates and Act 250 paperwork having been
> filed. I don't know how I would know that if
> the section on the back of the form is
> incomplete. It would also make more sense to
> have the parcel ID number on the form rather !
> than in the Town Clerk's section. The clerk
> should be able to verify that the parcel number
> appears to be correct rather than trying to
> identify the property in the first place. It
> should be made clear at this point if we can
> accept PTRs without SS# as they are more often
> left off now than a few years ago. I agree with
> Linda. Overall when documents are left with us
> for recording we are typically not allowed to
> pass judgment regarding the accuracy nor
> advised to give advice on what someone should do.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > From: Vermont Municipal Government
> Discussion Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Deborah Markowitz
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:01 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Signatures on PTTR's
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi all, The town clerks may only accept
> PTRs that are "complete and regular on their
> face." Over the years the tax department has
> "clarified" what this means. For example, at
> one time the department indicated that clerks
> needed to send back the documents when they did
> not include social security numbers. I have
> suggested to Susan that she write up a formal
> memo setting out the department's
> interpretation of this language so that clerks
> all know what is required and so that clerks
> can send a copy of the memo with the returned
> documents to the attorneys. I will also be
> happy to send the memo to the bar association
> so that they might e-mail it out to the bar as fair warning. Deb
> >
> >
> >
> > Deborah Markowitz
> >
> > Secretary of State
> >
> > 26 Terrace Street
> >
> > Montpelier, Vermont 05602
> >
> > 802-828-2148
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > From: Vermont Municipal Government
> Discussion Network
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda L. Spence, CMC/CVC
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 12:09 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Signatures on PTTR's
> >
> > Perhaps, if Deb Markowitz is watching this
> conversation, she could "chime in" on this. I
> still maintain that is not the statutory duty
> of Town Clerks to monitor what the attorneys
> are or are not filling in on the PTRs. Linda
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Monte, Suzanne
> >
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:54 AM
> >
> > Subject: Re: Signatures on PTTR's
> >
> >
> >
> > While all of the information requested
> on the PTR is useful and we encourage parties
> to fill in all the boxes and blanks, we
> recognize that refusing a PTR is an extreme and
> time-consuming measure not to be taken lightly.
> >
> > Sections 9606 and 9608 of Title 32
> require a PTR to include the following:
> signatures of the parties or their legal
> representatives, the basis for any exemption
> claimed, the true value of the property
> transferred, such information as the
> commissioner may reasonably require for proper
> administration of the transfer tax, and certain
> information regarding local and state permits and Act 250 certificates.
> >
> > What does this means on the PTR itself
> for it to be considered "complete and regular
> on its face" as required by 32 V.S.A. §9607?
> The following sections must be completed:
> Sections A and B (including social security
> numbers); C; L or M through P; the section
> entitled "Local and State Permits and Act 250
> Certificates"; and the parties must sign the
> form (signature of preparer is not required).
> If the property is enrolled in the current use
> program, Section K must also be filled in to comply with 32 V.S.A. §3757(e).
> >
> > Social security numbers are required for
> the administration of the transfer tax and must
> be included on the copy of the PTR filed with
> the Tax Department. SSNs should be blacked-out
> on the copy of the PTR filed in the land records.
> >
> > Suzanne
> >
> > Suzanne M. Monte
> > Assistant Attorney General
> > Vermont Department of Taxes,
> > Division of Property Valuation and Review
> > P.O. Box 429
> > Montpelier, VT 05601-0429
> > Phone: (802) 828-2731
> > Fax: (802) 828-5873
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > From: Vermont Municipal Government
> Discussion Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Thomas J. Dailey
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 11:00 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Signatures on PTTR's
> >
> > Suzanne - Does the signature requirement
> also apply to the preparer line? Some
> attorneys are reluctant to sign the returns they prepare - Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > From: Vermont Municipal Government
> Discussion Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Monte, Suzanne
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 10:34 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Signatures on PTTR's
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Town clerks cannot perform their
> statutory duties if a PTR is not signed.
> >
> > Section 9606(b) of Title 32 of the
> Vermont Statutes Annotated requires a PTR to be
> signed by each party. Section 9607 requires a
> PTR to be complete and regular on its face for
> a town clerk to issue a signed and written
> acknowledgment to the transferee and to affix
> an acknowledgment on the deed. If the PTR is
> not signed, it is not complete and the town
> clerk cannot issue an acknowledgment to the
> transferee or affix an acknowledgment on the deed.
> >
> > In addition, per 32 V.S.A. §9608 a town
> clerk cannot record a deed unless it is affixed
> with an acknowledgment of return and tax
> payment under Section 9607 and a signed
> certificate that the conveyance is in
> compliance with or exempt from the provisions
> of chapter 151 of Title 10. The required
> certificate is on page two of the PTR.
> Therefore, a town clerk cannot enter the
> required acknowledgment on a deed or record a
> deed until he/she receives a signed PTR.
> >
> > Suzanne M. Monte
> > Assistant Attorney General
> > Vermont Department of Taxes,
> > Division of Property Valuation and Review
> > P.O. Box 429
> > Montpelier, VT 05601-0429
> > Phone: (802) 828-2731
> > Fax: (802) 828-5873
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > From: Vermont Municipal Government
> Discussion Network
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda L. Spence, CMC/CVC
> > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 4:06 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Signatures on PTTR's
> >
> > Hi Toni,
> >
> >
> >
> > While I can understand your frustration
> at the lack of thoroughness of the PTTR's being
> completed by Attorneys etc., no where in state
> statute are we authorized to refuse anything
> for recording, barring the total absence of a
> PTTR or a survey mentioned in the deed.
> >
> >
> >
> > It would appear that your issue is with
> those preparing the PTTRs themselves, and not the Town Clerks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Linda
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: May, Toni
> >
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 10:26 AM
> >
> > Subject: Signatures on PTTR's
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Many PTTR's are being submitted to the
> Tax Dept. without both sellers and buyers signatures.
> > I would like to remind all town clerks
> that when a PTTR is filed, signatures by each
> of the parties or their legal representatives are required. 32 V.S.A 9606 (b).
> >
> > To avoid any confusion in the future,
> I ask that town clerks please double check
> PTTR's when they are submitted to their office.
> If they do not contain the required signatures,
> please send them back to the preparer to be filled out properly.
> >
> > I appreciate your time and cooperation in this matter.
> >
> > Thank You
> > Toni May,Tax Examiner
> > Vermont Property Transfer Tax
> >
> >
>
>
Bobbi Brimblecombe
Marshfield Town Clerk
122 School Street, Room 1
Marshfield, VT 05658
(802) 426-3305
[log in to unmask]
8-)
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