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SKIVT-L  November 2007, Week 4

SKIVT-L November 2007, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Ski Areas on Public Land: What can and can't they tell you to do?

From:

Jeremy Malczyk <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Vermont Skiing Discussion and Snow Reports <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:58:06 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (70 lines)

--- Todd Fisher <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> "Outback Guide Tour Access Only" is what is says on their trail map
> but I've never heard of anyone getting told not to access Slide Brook,
> despite dirty looks from the tour guides.
> 
> 

Very good question. Does anyone know where SB's leashold boundary lies? Does it encompass Slide
Brook? It may. If it does not, I can't see how they can block access.

Ski areas on federal land can manage their inbounds (everything within teh leasehold, including
"woods") terrain pretty much as they see fit. The sticky issue is how they manage access FROM that
land. The feds prohibit ski areas on leased federal land from blocking access to adjoining federal
land. But what exactly does that mean? My interpretation is that skiers on open terrain abutting
the SUP/leasehold boundary may legally cross that boundary (in an outbound direction anyway) if no
other means of access is provided. But what is access? Is it a gate at the bottom of the hill? Is
it a gate at the far side of the ski area? Can a ski area effectively rope off a 5 foot wide strip
along the boundary, affectively turning BC skiers into inbounds poachers?

This has been a big deal in places like Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, and Montana. After years of
wrangling, a pretty standard solution evolved. Backcountry gates are placed at strategic places
along the boundary, and all other boundary crossing is illegal (of course, people can only really
be caught if they cross back in via a rope-line). These gates are ALWAYS open if the adjacent
inbounds terrain is also open.   

Washington and Oregon (and possibly New Mexico, dunno about Cali or Idaho) have an annoyingly
different system. Most areas here have an outer perimeter that is called "backcountry" in the ski
area literature but is actually within the SUP area and is managed somewhat like in-bounds terrain
(ie, some level of avi control is performed, and the ski patrol skis there, but there is no
sweep). Truth be told, many CO, WY, UT, and MT resorts have areas that fit this definition too,
but they are not called backcountry (think, the North Face at Crested Butte, or Devils Castle at
Alta). At Alpental, all true backcountry access is via an area that fits this definition. And once
inside this area, there are no gates at the ski area boundary. You would actually be hard pressed
to know that you even crossed the boundary, because it is often unmarked.

The problem arises when these areas are closed, and other terrain the abuts the boundary is open.
At Alpental, that other access point is Edelweiss Pass, atop a major run that is very often open.
The edge of the SUP is here, however nobody is officially allowed to cross it. My question is
whether or not this is legal. I can understand why the ski area does not want people to leave via
this access point (it goes off the backside of the mountain, directly into uncontrolled and
hazardous terrain from which a rescue would be extremely difficult). But, it is not their terrain
to manage. And if they are required to provide access to the surrounding federal land while not
endangering people within the leasehold, then this is it.  

I haven't gotten a straight answer from anyone about the legality of this access point. There is
no rope there, just a big STOP sign. I have a feeling that the situation is such that they cant
really do anything about it, and access really is allowed per federal law, but advertising that
fact is in nobody's best interest.

This is similar to SB blocking access to Slide Brook, or the back side of the mountain (via
Paradise, Rimrock, or Jester -- all of which abut the boundary). Similar except for the fact that
your odds of falling off a 200 foot cliff or getting buried in an avalanche are a million times
smaller at SB. But that should not matter. To my knowledge they do not, and can not, block access
to those areas when those trails are open. But Skip, and other past and present patrollers might
know better, so I'd like to hear your takes on it.

Jerm


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