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ISOGEOCHEM  December 2007

ISOGEOCHEM December 2007

Subject:

Re: 2H and 18O values for "blood" water and body tissue

From:

"Thomas L. Millican" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Stable Isotope Geochemistry <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:19:39 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (135 lines)

I'd expect a lot of variability between individuals, but there are still a number of water intake sources that are localized besides just drinking water and beer. 
As a personal example, every day is started with a cup of coffee made with water from the tap. A bowl of oatmeal or rice is made with water from the tap. Tea is made with water from the tap. For dinner, pasta is made with water from the tap. Even the beer and mead are home-made with water from the tap. I expect that the fruits and vegetables from the local farmer's market are grown with local rainfall similar to the water from the tap. Even if I were to drink bottled water throughout the day when I want just water, there's still a lot of water from the local water supply that I'm taking in.
In places around the world where the local water supply may not be as safe to drink, this may be different to some degree. For example, while living in Bavaria, I found that the tap water would result in undesirable events, so I bought bottled water for drinking and coffee. It would have been  nice to be able to see if there was a shift in O and D in my blood from the moves relative to the local water supplies'.


----- Original Message -----
From: Pier de Groot <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ISOGEOCHEM] 2H and 18O values for "blood" water and body tissue
To: [log in to unmask]

> Hi Harro and others,
> 
> A lot of good things were mentioned already about the 18O and D 
> compositionof human blood. One factor was not mentioned yet, I 
> think (or did I overlook
> it?). Some people drink mostly mineral water. If that water 
> originates from
> a source different in isotopic composition from the local tap water 
> it will
> influence the blood composition too.
> For the Netherlands that would be mostly isotopic compositions as 
> found in
> the Belgian Ardennes, or in less cases French or German sources. If 
> theinfluence will be significant I am not certain, but maybe good 
> to think
> about it.
> 
> My two eurocents.
> 
> Bets wishes,
> Pier.
> 
> 
> ****************************************************************
> Delta Isotopes Consultancy
> 
> Dr. Pier A. de Groot
> Pastoor Moorkensstraat 16
> 2400 Mol - Achterbos
> Belgium
> Tel. +32 (0)14 326 205
> e-mail: [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]
> 
> Associate editor for stable isotopes of eEarth on-line magazine
> http://www.electronic-earth.net
> 
> Head of Isotopes in Geosciences of the European Geoscience Union 
> (EGU).EGU Home web-site: http://www.copernicus.org/EGU/EGU.html
> Isotope program for the EGU2008 General Assemblee can be found at:
> http://www.cosis.net/members/meetings/programme/view.php?m_id=49&p_id=316&PH
> PSESSID=1ad86b0d1b35d7bf9aee006f1e2f5cf4
> 
> Organization Committee member of BASIS (Benelux Association of Stable
> Isotope Scientists).
> http://www.basis-online.eu/
> 
> Visit my WEB-site about my ³Handbook of Stable Isotope Analytical
> Techniques², with a link to the Elsevier web site on the handbook 
> (marked:ŒOrder Now¹):
> http://users.pandora.be/handbook/index.html
> last update: August 15, 2005
> Volume I is now available. Volume II is expected to be available in 
> 2008.
> ****************************************************************
> 
> 
> > From: "H.A.J. Meijer" <[log in to unmask]>
> > Reply-To: Stable Isotope Geochemistry <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:32:51 +0100
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: [ISOGEOCHEM] 2H and 18O values for "blood" water and 
> body tissue
> > 
> > Thanks colleagues, foor all your reactions and advice.
> > 
> > There is a lot to discuss about this subject, that is clear. I am no
> > specialist in this matter, but my intuition that the local water 
> must> be key player, is kind of supported through several of the 
> comments.> After all, it needs not be water that is directly 
> consumed, but water
> > that is conatained in the food (grass, vegetables, even grain
> > contains a large fraction of water that is close to the local
> > Meteoric water). Only under real arid conditions the water produced
> > in the food "combustion" process may play a dominant role.
> > 
> > But let me just be more specific about my data.
> > 
> > The last two cases I had at hand were wild Cape gannets (South
> > African West Coast and Namibia) and Dutch laboratory mice. First the
> > gannets.
> > 
> > I expect their body water to be pretty close to sea water. After 
> all,> they eat fish, and fish have no way to escape a VSMOW-like 
> imprint on
> > their body water and tissue (seems to me, at least!). And indeed, as
> > far as 18O is concerned, a total of 20 background values of a total
> > of 16 individuals show a de18O of close to zero, with a spread of
> > about +/- 1 per mil. de2H, however, shows about half of the values
> > close to zero, and half considerably above zero (the highest 
> being up
> > to almost 100o/oo !).  Looking closer (after the suggestions on
> > Isogeochem) I saw that some of the duplicate mm show one de2H close
> > to zero, and one off by 20-50 per mil.
> > The laboratory mice samples show a similar behaviour: de18O at about
> > -4 per mil (Dutch tap water is around -6 per mil, as well as all the
> > regional vegetation their food is supposedly coming from), de2H at
> > about -25, but with some large excursions to more positive values.
> > 
> > So after all, I think Dachun Zhang's observation of some kind of
> > H-exchange in stored blood might be the answer. The samples we
> > process are taken in the field, stored in flame-off glass capilaries
> > and sometimes take many months before they are analysed. The 
> analysis> starts with microdistillation, but if exchange has been 
> going on
> > before that time, the damage has been done. As it is so variable, it
> > might have something to do with the leaktightness of the capilary?
> > It is something to worry about in the field of Doubly labelled water
> > for energy expenditure, though, since it can just as well affect the
> > labelled samples.
> > 
> > Marilyn, as for your nice series of background values on humans, I
> > suggest you contact Klaas Westerterp (university of Maastricht,
> > Netherlands, <[log in to unmask]>), who has an impressive
> > track record of using DLW techniques on humans. My guess is he is
> > interested, and he can tell you in how far your series contains
> > unique material.
> > 
> > Thanks once more, and if anyone has a concrete idea about a possible
> > exchange process, I'll be eager to know.
> > 
> > Harro
> > 
> 

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