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September 2008

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Subject:
From:
Kent McFarland <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Vermont Butterfly Survey <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:17:43 -0400
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (163 lines)
I too thought it was Eastern Comma Peter. Just catching up on emails 
now.... sorry.
Kent

Kent McFarland
Vermont Center for Ecostudies
PO Box 420  Norwich, VT 05055
802.649.1431
http://www.vtecostudies.org/



Grkovich, Alex wrote:
> *Peter,*
> **
> *Terry's is definitely a Green (faunus). I agree with an earlier 
> comment that yours is an Eastern Comma (comma), winter form...*
> *Alex*
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Vermont Butterfly Survey [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On 
> Behalf Of *Peter Manship
> *Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2008 7:50 AM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: Green or Hoary Comma ID help
>
> Alex,
> You didn't say what your ID choice's are for Terry's Comma or mine 
> base on the photos that we posted. I for one would like to hear what 
> ID's you came up with and way. I looked at the ventral image that 
> Terry posted and the one I posted , the comma on the image I posted 
> has more of an L shape to me and is hooked on both ends. Terry's I 
> thought appears to have a softer curve with a hooked end more C like 
> making Terry's Green Comma ID correct and in fact my Green could be 
> anything but a Green. Is that right ? This is all good stuff but is 
> very confusing at times. Alex what is your ID opinion of the two Comma 
> images we posted? Help out here.
> Peter
> ---- Original Message -----
>
>     *From:* Grkovich, Alex <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>     *To:* [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>     *Sent:* Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:40 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: Green or Hoary Comma ID help
>
>     Peter,
>     Bear in mind that one real good field mark for Hoary (and Gray)
>     Comma is in the shape of the "comma mark" on the VHW. In Hoaries
>     it is an "L", not a "C" with hooked ends...Well, this is not
>     always true in Green females...but is true in males...
>     Also, Hoaries are VERY distinctly two-toned below, much darker
>     inward and much lighter (gray) outward...
>     Alex
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Vermont Butterfly Survey on behalf of Peter Manship
>     *Sent:* Sat 9/20/2008 7:37 PM
>     *To:* [log in to unmask]
>     *Subject:* Re: Green or Hoary Comma ID help
>
>     Hi Terry,
>
>     What great photos you got, how lucky to have it landing on your
>     hand. Just
>     like you said I too am finding ID'ing Commas somewhat challenging and
>     would welcome others input. I'll leave you with this to think
>     about from
>     page 183 of Butterflies of the East Coast about IDing the Green Comma
>     "Virtually all marking are variable, both geographically and within
>     populations" not much help there!
>     As for the image of the ventral view that I posted looking through the
>     plastic jar lid doesn't show the green color that could be seen on the
>     forward wing margins which lead me to the Green Comma ID. But your
>     point
>     is a good one and it could be a Eastern Comma but I think we'll
>     never know
>     the answer to that question. The good thing in all this is that
>     the next
>     time I find one of these Comma's I will look allot harder at the
>     marking and
>     photograph them well before letting it go. And for what it worth I
>     looked at
>     your photos and thought Hoary Comma, because of the gray wing
>     fringe and the
>     ruffled wing shape. The ventral view shows a pattern bellow the
>     comma hw
>     that I couldn't find on the Green,Gray or Eastern Commas looking in
>     Butterflies of the East Coast. All this just adds to the ID dilemma of
>     Commas.
>
>     Peter Manship
>     Ludlow Vt
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: "Terry L. Rosenmeier" <[log in to unmask]>
>     To: <[log in to unmask]>
>     Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:37 AM
>     Subject: Re: Green or Hoary Comma ID help
>
>
>     > Peter, thank you for posting the question and photos.
>     >
>     > We were in northern NH earlier this month not that far from
>     where you were
>     > (Dartmouth College Grant), and we saw lots of commas and
>     struggled with
>     > the IDs ourselves. We think that we were seeing mostly Green
>     Commas, but
>     > they didn't look like the one in your photos. We're wondering if
>     yours
>     > might be an Eastern Comma.
>     >
>     > The ones we saw had very jagged wing edges, had the innermost
>     dot on the
>     > upper forewing dot band doubled across the vein , and had bright
>     yellow
>     > chevrons on the upper forewing, . Most had green markings on the
>     > underwings, but that was only visible in good light.
>     >
>     > I'm attaching photos I took of one that we saw and decided was a
>     Green,
>     > just in case anybody else wants to weigh in on this. (This guy
>     was very
>     > friendly and insisted on landing on us, staying on us even as we
>     walked!)
>     > We're finding that comma ID is not all that straightforward, but
>     we enjoy
>     > the challenge and welcome further discussion!
>     >
>     > Terry Rosenmeier
>     > Karen Kluge
>     > Hanover, NH
>     >
>     > ========================
>     > Can anyone confirm the I.D. of this butterfly (see images) I
>     found it
>     > yesterday on Big Brook rd in Pittsburg N.H. (I know it's not VT
>     but where
>     > else can I find the answer?) I think it's a Green Comma and just
>     want to
>     > make sure.I was going back and forth between Green and Hoary
>     Comma. Tails
>     > not right for a Gray to me, Gray's tail is much darker and
>     fancier alone
>     > the
>     > edge.
>     > Thanks in advance for the help!
>     >
>     > Also seen up there:
>     >
>     > Morning Cloak hundreds of them everywhere, over 80 on Big Brook rd
>     > alone, this was an amazing site. I think they must have just
>     > hatched
>     > on Tuesday , they all looked brand new
>     >
>     > Red Admiral 7
>     > Monarch 1
>     > Cabbage White 15++
>     > Orange Sulfur 3
>     >
>     > Peter Manship
>     > Ludlow Vt
>     >
>

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