December 2008


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Charlene and Jonathan <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
VGBN Discussion <[log in to unmask]>, Charlene and Jonathan <[log in to unmask]>
Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:14:06 -0500
text/plain (112 lines)
I forgot to say that we have stopped using damp-spray cellulose  
because the moisture stays in the building way too long, and have had
excellent results with dense-pack.
Jonathan Morse

On Dec 11, 2008, at 8:57 PM, Ben Graham wrote:

> I have found that air movement is best for drying. IE fans or
> dehumidifiers.
> Seems like they are standard tools for the fast track contractor
> these days.
> Ben Graham
> On 12/11/08 8:23 PM, "Tim Yandow" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Can someone explain to me how a Salamander can exacerbate moisture
>> issues
>> during dry out? Is this a problem with dense pack as well? What
>> would be a
>> better way to provide heat for drywall and painting after insulation
>> installation than space heaters?
>> Tim Yandow
>>> The borates seemed to work fine in the cellulose -
>>> there was no
>>> mold in the it. Moisture had condensed on the back of the
>>> Typar. Too much moisture in the application, extra moisture
>>> introduced by space heaters, interior walls left open too long
>>> meaning to help it dry, winter conditions promoting
>>> condensation, Typar creating issues? Any or all are options,
>>> but no one seems to be able to pinpoint one cause or whether it
>>> was a combination of all. NuWool was the brand and I understand
>>> it is the good stuff. The installation installer has since sold
>>> his business and vanished. The builder was one of the best in
>>> the business. Walls were left open for several months (now one
>>> reputable local installer is saying to close the walls in
>>> within a week). Salamanders were used because no one said not
>>> to. Probably a combination of a number of things except poor
>>> construction. Lots of people chipped in to help fix the
>>> problem, but it still cost the builder. Fortunately the
>>> homeowner was understanding, but until it is established
>>> exactly why it happened it is an experiment I don't intend to
>>> repeat.
>>> Bill
>>> Robert Riversong wrote: --- On
>>> Thu,
>>> 12/11/08, William C Badger AIA wrote:
>>> Interesting
>>> material. Has anyone in the group tried it and does anyone locally
>>> install it? We tried damp applied cellulose in a new house a
>>> couple of
>>> years ago with disastrous results. Black mold grew on the outside
>>> of the
>>> plywood sheathing and the back side of the Typar house wrap. The
>>> siding
>>> had to be stripped off and things dried out. A series of unusual
>>> circumstances that created a perfect storm?
>>> The mold on your plywood sheathing may have been encouraged by poor
>>> installation practice or too quick a close-in of the walls, but
>>> likely
>>> had other contributing factors. Kiln-dried
>>> lumber is
>>> milled at 19% moisture content by weight and it takes a new house
>>> a full
>>> year to completely dry to a stable level. Modern cellulose
>>> installation
>>> techniques require very little added water, and the walls should
>>> always
>>> be left open from 1 to 3 days following application.
>>> Running salamander-type temporary construction heaters only puts
>>> more
>>> moisture into the indoor environment. Cellulose has been
>>> successfully
>>> installed in northern climates without a vapor barrier (as long
>>> as there
>>> is good air sealing), and applying a plastic vapor barrier and
>>> closing in
>>> the wall before dry-out will almost certainly create a mold problem.
>>> The brand of cellulose, also, makes a big
>>> difference. Only
>>> those, like National Fiber, who use EPA-certified fungicides can
>>> guarantee no mold problems. If wall plate
>>> penetrations
>>> in the top and bottom plates are not properly sealed, this could
>>> create a
>>> significant source of moisture in the wall
>>> cavities. My
>>> guess is that you had a "perfect storm" caused perhaps by poor
>>> quality
>>> materials, poor installation technique, and inappropriate
>>> construction
>>> practices. Don't blame the cellulose - there is no better
>>> insulation on
>>> the market.
> Those who give up freedom for safety, deserve neither.
> Benjamin Franklin
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> Ben Graham
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