December 2008


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Charlene and Jonathan <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
VGBN Discussion <[log in to unmask]>, Charlene and Jonathan <[log in to unmask]>
Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:10:54 -0500
text/plain (91 lines)
Any space heater that is not vented leaves the combustion products in  
the heated space.  Thus, Salamanders and propane heaters introduce  
tremendous amounts of water vapor, along with CO2 and CO and other  
pollutants into the heated space.  We have used old direct vent gas  
heaters, vented through a window opening to very effectively provide  
temporary heat in our projects.
	Jonathan Morse
	Marlboro, VT

On Dec 11, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Tim Yandow wrote:

> Can someone explain to me how a Salamander can exacerbate moisture  
> issues
> during dry out? Is this a problem with dense pack as well? What  
> would be a
> better way to provide heat for drywall and painting after insulation
> installation than space heaters?
> Tim Yandow
>>            The borates seemed to work fine in the cellulose -  
>> there was no
>> mold in the it. Moisture had condensed on the back of the
>> Typar. Too much moisture in the application, extra moisture
>> introduced by space heaters, interior walls left open too long
>> meaning to help it dry, winter conditions promoting
>> condensation, Typar creating issues? Any or all are options,
>> but no one seems to be able to pinpoint one cause or whether it
>> was a combination of all. NuWool was the brand and I understand
>> it is the good stuff. The installation installer has since sold
>> his business and vanished. The builder was one of the best in
>> the business. Walls were left open for several months (now one
>> reputable local installer is saying to close the walls in
>> within a week). Salamanders were used because no one said not
>> to. Probably a combination of a number of things except poor
>> construction. Lots of people chipped in to help fix the
>> problem, but it still cost the builder. Fortunately the
>> homeowner was understanding, but until it is established
>> exactly why it happened it is an experiment I don't intend to
>> repeat.
>>  Bill
>>  Robert Riversong wrote:                                  --- On Thu,
>> 12/11/08, William C Badger AIA  wrote:                    Interesting
>> material. Has anyone in the group tried it and does anyone locally
>> install it? We tried damp applied cellulose in a new house a  
>> couple of
>> years ago with disastrous results. Black mold grew on the outside  
>> of the
>> plywood sheathing and the back side of the Typar house wrap. The  
>> siding
>> had to be stripped off and things dried out. A series of unusual
>> circumstances that created a perfect storm?
>> The mold on your plywood sheathing may have been encouraged by poor
>> installation practice or too quick a close-in of the walls, but  
>> likely
>> had other contributing factors.                   Kiln-dried  
>> lumber is
>> milled at 19% moisture content by weight and it takes a new house  
>> a full
>> year to completely dry to a stable level. Modern cellulose  
>> installation
>> techniques require very little added water, and the walls should  
>> always
>> be left open from 1 to 3 days following application.
>> Running salamander-type temporary construction heaters only puts more
>> moisture into the indoor environment. Cellulose has been successfully
>> installed in northern climates without a vapor barrier (as long as  
>> there
>> is good air sealing), and applying a plastic vapor barrier and  
>> closing in
>> the wall before dry-out will almost certainly create a mold problem.
>>              The brand of cellulose, also, makes a big difference.  
>> Only
>> those, like National Fiber, who use EPA-certified fungicides can
>> guarantee no mold problems.                   If wall plate  
>> penetrations
>> in the top and bottom plates are not properly sealed, this could  
>> create a
>> significant source of moisture in the wall  
>> cavities.                   My
>> guess is that you had a "perfect storm" caused perhaps by poor  
>> quality
>> materials, poor installation technique, and inappropriate  
>> construction
>> practices. Don't blame the cellulose - there is no better  
>> insulation on
>> the market.