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SKIVT-L  December 2008, Week 3

SKIVT-L December 2008, Week 3

Subject:

Re: beacons was Re: [SKIVT-L] Holiday Gift Idea

From:

Tom Moore <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Vermont Skiing Discussion and Snow Reports <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:50:28 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (150 lines)

Sharon,

I've been on three body recovery teams. Err, avalanche response teams looking for three people. We eventually found all three though they weren't people by the time we found them. :-( Fair disclosure: none were wearing beacons. However since we were getting there two to three hours after the incident, a beacon would have just made for less work but the outcome would have probably been the same. 

In Tahoe, if it snowing, most of the locals are beeping (strange saying as you can't hear them directly) if in the front, side, or back-country. I'm skiing with a shovel and a probe. Most others are also.

So if I am inbounds and I get a shooting crack or whoomph (both have happened to me inbounds on ski patrol blessed terrain), does that mean I'm safe just because I'm beeping and I am inbounds? Nada, the avalanche doesn't know that you're beeping and/or inbounds nor does it care. 

Like Jonathon, I teach an avalanche course (Level I, the entry level course, and I'm not sure what Jonathon teaches) and the science is the easy part of the course. It is the human factors that I have a hard time getting across. Wearing a beacon, unlike being in a car with airbags, does nothing to mitigate damage to yourself once the avalanche starts. Actually, a beacon is like those damn Onstar cell phone systems that some cars come with. Do I want an airbag in my car or do I want the Onstar while I'm having the accident. I'll take the airbag as it reduces acceleration injuries. Once the accident has come to an end and I have blunt force trauma, the Onstar, like the beacon, will tell people where to find me. Hopefully I'll be alive. 

I lost my girlfriend in an avalanche in Yellowstone 12 years ago this coming March. I became an Avi instructor partially because of Diane's death and it hurts my soul when I hear someone say safe because they have a beacon. FWIW, she was an East coast skier and was with a park ranger (both were killed).

As someone said, take an Avi course. Even if you are staying in the front country as it should tell you what to be looking for and you will be more effective if you are involved in a rescue. BTW, Aspen Highlands killed someone around 2001 I believe in a six-foot slide as in the slide ran six vertical feet. It doesn't take much to get killed.

With all that said, even with how sensitive I am about avalanches, if I was the level skier that you describe as (liking the trees and steeps), I wouldn't buy a beacon if I lived on the East Coast and was staying inbounds while I was out west. However if you *want* to spend the money to get a trio (beacon, shovel, and probe), great but it is overkill. Something akin to wearing a football helmet while driving.

Since you are curious, to find an Avi course. Most of my students come out of the course saying "Holy fecal material, I've been in situations that probably should have slid but didn't." Most stay out of the backcountry. For a bit. Then they start working with what little they know and start hopefully start getting smarter about their avalanche practices. Like getting a pilot's license, an avi course is your "license" to learn. 

~Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Lives [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 3:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [SKIVT-L] beacons was Re: [SKIVT-L] Holiday Gift Idea

Thanks for all that useful info Jonathan.

and also thanks for confirming the issue of semantics.

I posted a similar thread on another forum, and no one picked apart my post 
like was done here.

I am not stupid. I know that the beacon won't protect me from an avalanche. 
But it may improve the chances of recovery before death, in the event of 
such catastrophe, therefore keeping me a bit safer from the possibility of 
death by suffocation. 

Why shouldn't I want one? I'd get 2 if I could...but that would be a lot to ask 
my mother. Thankfully, many of my ski buddies have them and I hope to have 
a practice session with them as soon as I get one.

It's still on my wish list.

-Sh

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:04:56 -0500, Jonathan S. Shefftz 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:14:42 -0500, Nathan Bryant 
><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>I'm sure Sheffy will chime in here, but in case he's on vacation (or
>>busily putting the finishing touches on his beacon review) [...]
>
>Just got back in from some nearby turns . . . although unfortunately now I 
>need to head back out again for some immediately adjacent shoveling.  
(Then 
>some nearby xc skiing.)
>Anyway, I finished (for the moment) all my testing this past weekend, and 
Lou 
>is now working on the web formatting, etc.  If anyone absolutely can’t wait 
for 
>the WildSnow.com blogs, I can email a draft copy.
>
>On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:23:26 -0500, Mike Bernstein 
><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>FWIW, I think people were responding to Sharon's comment/contention that 
>>she'd be "safer" with the beacon.  That's clearly incorrect.  She would be 
>more 
>>recoverable, but not safer.  
>
>Maybe we’re just getting into semantics here, but being more recoverable - 
>alive - sure seems to be safer.  Are you going to assert that wearing a 
>seatbelt or being in a car with an airbag is not safer?
>
>On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:47:20 -0500, Paul Terwilliger <[log in to unmask]> 
>wrote:
>
>>While newer beacons are more powerful and have more "stuff", they take
>>more time to get used to.
>
>Agreed, and I will quote myself here to elaborate:
>“The Pulse (as well as the S1) essentially substitutes model-specific 
familiarity 
>for more general beacon searching skills.  In other words, hand a Pulse with 
no 
>prior explanation to a user highly skilled in resolving multiple-burial searches 
on 
>a beacon that has no special features, and the user (especially with no prior 
>cell phone usage) might be confused with manipulating the soft keys 
>correctly.  By contrast, a user familiar with the Pulse can usually solve 
multiple-
>burial searches as if with x-ray vision.  The analogy that comes to mind is 
the 
>difference between a driver in an entirely unfamiliar city yet skilled with the 
>latest vehicle GPS system versus a driver with a good map and a general 
>sense of a city’s layout trying to navigate through an unfamiliar 
neighborhood.”
>
>>FWIW, I was rather surprised last winter when BRC started switching to
>>the Pulse.  It's a great beacon, my personal favorite (though I
>>haven't yet tried the S1 with the new firmware), but it takes some
>>figuring out.
>
>I’m a bit surprised by that too.
>Although they’ll be pleased to know of the upcoming firmware upgrade:
>
>“In other words, love the latest high-tech gizmos?  Then check out the 
Pulse.  
>Still haven’t figured out how to set the clock on your microwave oven?  Look 
>elsewhere.  
>Either way, although you should definitely read the user manual before 
>purchasing any beacon, and then again once you buy it, and then yet again 
at 
>the start of any season, with the Pulse you’ll probably have to read it a few 
>times at each stage.  Carefully.  Very.
>But wait, there’s more!  (Did I write that before?)  Barryvox is working on a 
>firmware upgrade that will allow a choice between two overall modes for the 
>beacon:  essentially the current version (with its extensive functionality, 
>options, and customization) and some sort of very streamlined operation 
>(presumably targeted for those whose microwave oven clocks are perpetually 
>flashing 12:00).”
>
>>The Tracker is simple.  It works.  If I'm in avy terrain with someone
>>inexperienced, they will be using one of my spare Trackers.
>
>Agreed.  Should have a third antenna though for pinpointing.  Plus an 
indicator 
>light for a multiple burial.  Now when’s the Tracker 2 coming out?  Still, for 
>price sensitive buyers who want an easy-to-use beacon, I often point them 
in 
>the direction of Trackers when 20% off sales are available.
>
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>SkiVt-L is brought to you by the University of Vermont.
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