LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Archives


SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Archives

SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Archives


SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE@LIST.UVM.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Home

SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Home

SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE  January 2009

SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE January 2009

Subject:

Re: SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Digest - 31 Dec 2008 to 1 Jan 2009 (#2009-2)

From:

krauß <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Science for the People Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 2 Jan 2009 05:56:49 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (4011 lines)

hi, please remove me from this list. since i dont see an option  
provided at the end of this email to do i myself i have to ask this  
way. sorry to bother anyone. cheers, p




----- Mensaje de [log in to unmask] ---------
    Fecha: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 00:00:49 -0500
       De: SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE automatic digest system  
<[log in to unmask]>
Responder-A: Science for the People Discussion List  
<[log in to unmask]>
  Asunto: SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Digest - 31 Dec 2008 to 1 Jan 2009 (#2009-2)
     Para: [log in to unmask]


> There are 13 messages totalling 3891 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>   1. Beloved Pets Everlasting?
>   2. "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn (7)
>   3. 911 and Mitchel Cohen
>   4. HPV vaccine controversy in India
>   5. Uprising in Greece (Radio Show), FRIDAY 11 a.m.m
>   6. From Cynthia McKinney: We Lived to Tell the Story; Lebanon Rescued Us
>   7. supermarkets and the poor
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 07:57:49 -0600
> From:    Phil Gasper <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Beloved Pets Everlasting?
>
> --============_-981304218==_ma============
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> And a happy new year to all. --PG
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/01/garden/01clones.html
>
> January 1, 2009
>
> Living Together
>
> Beloved Pets Everlasting?
>
> By ERIC KONIGSBERG
>
> =46airfax, Calif.
>
> THE most difficult thing about the cloned puppies=20
> is not telling them apart, but explaining why=20
> they don't look exactly alike. This was the=20
> problem Lou Hawthorne faced on a recent afternoon=20
> hike with Mira and MissyToo, two dogs whose=20
> embryos were created from the preserved, recycled=20
> and repurposed nuclear DNA of the original Missy,=20
> a border collie-husky mix who died in 2002.
>
> To be sure, they have a very strong resemblance=20
> to each other and to Missy. It's just that=20
> sometimes, as soon as people hear that the dogs=20
> are clones, the questions start coming:
>
> "Why is one dog's fur curlier?"
>
> "Why aren't the dogs the same size?"
>
> "Why is one of them darker?"
>
> "Why does this one have a floppy ear?"
>
> Mr. Hawthorne, who is 48, is highly invested in=20
> the notion of likeness. With clones, after all,=20
> what good does similar do? It is Mr. Hawthorne's=20
> biotech company, BioArts, which is based here in=20
> the Bay Area but has arrangements with a=20
> laboratory in South Korea, that performed the=20
> actual cloning.
>
> He also has particular reason to be sensitive to=20
> questions that touch on the authenticity of the=20
> clones, given the history of his chief=20
> geneticist, Dr. Hwang Woo Suk of the Sooam=20
> Biotech Research Foundation in South Korea. Dr.=20
> Hwang is perhaps best known for fraudulently=20
> reporting in 2004 that a team he led had=20
> successfully cloned human embryos and stem cells.=20
> After the false claims were unearthed, he was=20
> fired by Seoul National University, where he did=20
> his research as a professor. But he is also=20
> widely acknowledged for having been involved in=20
> successfully cloning an Afghan hound in 2005.
>
> "Dr. Hwang's past is obviously controversial, but=20
> we feel that his lab and his record when it comes=20
> to dog cloning are the best in the field," Mr.=20
> Hawthorne said. "He's been very open with me=20
> about admitting his mistakes. Nobody says he lied=20
> about cloning animals."
>
> Elizabeth Wictum, associate director of the=20
> Veterinary Genetics Laboratory at the University=20
> of California, Davis, said that earlier this=20
> year, she and her staff had taken sets of DNA=20
> extracts from Mr. Hawthorne's puppies and=20
> compared them with stored samples of Missy's DNA,=20
> and concluded that the results were "consistent=20
> with clones."
>
> "The puppies had the same nuclear DNA as Missy,=20
> and different mitochondrial DNA, which is what=20
> you get from a cloned animal," Ms. Wictum said.=20
> "If somebody were trying to, say, sneak in two=20
> samples from the same dog or an identical twin=20
> and claim that one was a clone's, there would be=20
> no differentiation between the nuclear and=20
> mitochondrial DNA."
>
> Missy 1.0 - Mira and MissyToo's "genetic donor,"=20
> as Mr. Hawthorne calls her when he's speaking=20
> technically - was his mother's dog. To date, he=20
> said, there are four Missy clones running around,=20
> all born between December 2007 and June 2008.=20
> Mira lives at Mr. Hawthorne's house in Mill=20
> Valley and MissyToo between homes in Mill Valley=20
> and San Francisco, both owned by his mother's=20
> boyfriend; clones No. 3 and 4 were given away to=20
> friends and now live in Phoenix and Boulder,=20
> respectively. (Two others were produced but died=20
> of parvovirus as newborns.)
>
> In July, Mr. Hawthorne held a series of online=20
> auctions, offering his services to four high=20
> bidders who agreed to pay from $130,000 to=20
> $170,000 for clones of their dogs. (To offset=20
> accusations of elitism, Mr. Hawthorne also held a=20
> search for a fifth, pro bono client.) Over the=20
> last few weeks, the first three puppies from this=20
> group were born in South Korea.
>
> Mr. Hawthorne claims Missy's clones are the=20
> world's first commercially cloned dogs, although=20
> RNL Bio, a Korean company with which he is=20
> embroiled in a legal dispute over patent rights -=20
> and the chance to dominate the dog-cloning market=20
> - has also made this claim. Between 2004 and=20
> 2006, another company Mr. Hawthorne ran cloned=20
> cats for a handful of paying customers. Dogs are=20
> among the most difficult mammals to clone,=20
> scientists say, because their reproductive=20
> systems are highly atypical, but Mr. Hawthorne=20
> thinks that the market is keen.
>
> When Mr. Hawthorne recalls Missy, he tends to wax=20
> eugenic. "She was an amazing dog: superior=20
> intellect, incredibly beautiful, obedient, a=20
> phenomenal temperament," he said. "I especially=20
> loved her majestic plume of a tail." And in the=20
> clones, as he put it matter-of-factly, "all those=20
> qualities are represented."
>
> As for some of the discrepancies, the clones vary=20
> in size and color, Mr. Hawthorne said, primarily=20
> because they were born months apart, and none are=20
> fully grown yet. "The dark part of their fur=20
> starts out reddish-black and gets blacker over=20
> time," he said. "Except on the faces, which start=20
> out black and go white within the first year."
>
> Each clone's embryo was created by joining=20
> Missy's nuclear DNA with the enucleated (which is=20
> to say, DNA-stripped) egg of a different dog. The=20
> eggs, with their new DNA from Missy, began to=20
> grow and divide. After that, each was carried to=20
> term in the uterus of still another dog - a step=20
> which, though it has no bearing on the dogs'=20
> genetic makeup, can affect such external traits=20
> as the waviness of fur and the up-or-down=20
> pointing of the ears. (It has to do with=20
> different levels of collagen.)
>
> On his afternoon trek around Lake Lagunitas, Mr.=20
> Hawthorne did his best to explain these matters=20
> to his audience, picnicking families who sat=20
> transfixed as the two dogs he calls "clisters" -=20
> his made-up word for clone sisters - took turns=20
> chasing each other off leash.
>
> "Can they clone coconut?" a girl asked.
>
> "Sorry, we don't do vegetables," Mr. Hawthorne said.
>
> A parent clarified: Coconut was the family dog's=20
> name. "Can you clone a three-year-old housebroken=20
> dog?"
>
> Mr. Hawthorne went on gamely. "Learned behavior,=20
> no. But a lot of behavior is hereditary," he said.
>
> While he does acknowledge that when it comes to=20
> such highly trainable creatures as dogs, it's=20
> pretty difficult to know where nature ends and=20
> nurture begins, he said that in the case of his=20
> dogs, the ambiguities have nothing on the=20
> essential Missy-ness of the clones.
>
> "The girls love to run after each other," he said=20
> pointing at the dogs in the distance. "You see=20
> the speed and athleticism? That's part of what=20
> made me want to do this. There are dogs that are=20
> faster on a straightaway, but I'd never seen a=20
> dog make turns like this until Missy."
>
> Mr. Hawthorne sees himself as a cultivator of=20
> prodigious talent - from the clones to his team=20
> of scientists in South Korea to his 8-year-old=20
> son, Skye, who had accompanied him and the dogs=20
> on the hike. Skye is in third grade but is=20
> already studying high school algebra. Mr.=20
> Hawthorne brought along a notebook with a handful=20
> of quadratic-equation problems, in case his son=20
> got restless.
>
> Last spring, Skye completed a science project,=20
> "Cloning Grandma's Dog" that included a=20
> behavioral comparison chart. Among other=20
> findings, the study concluded that Mira shares=20
> Missy's fondness for broccoli and "lots of=20
> snuggles" - both dogs scored five out of five=20
> points in these categories, in addition to the=20
> one for "likes long walks." ("Most dogs do," Skye=20
> noted under "comments.") Two key matters of=20
> variance were "Jumps into cars" ("Clone still=20
> learning which car is ours") and "Hates camera=20
> flash" ("Clone did not respond to standard=20
> flash").
>
> Ultimately, Skye determined that Mira looked a=20
> lot like Missy but that their behavior was only=20
> 77 percent similar. "But that was April," Mr.=20
> Hawthorne said. "I think they're a lot more=20
> similar now."
>
> LIVING with a clone, Mr. Hawthorne claims, is a=20
> lot like living with the original dog. "It's=20
> totally as if I've got Missy in my house, once=20
> you get over the 'wow' factor," he said. He and=20
> Mira and Skye inhabit a two-story "1950s futurist=20
> house" built into a hill in Mill Valley (Mr.=20
> Hawthorne is divorced and shares custody of his=20
> son with his ex-wife - "an excellent genetic=20
> donor, by the way," he said of her). At night, he=20
> said, Mira "puts Skye to bed," which means she=20
> walks with him to his room and ascends the stairs=20
> of his loft bed with him, waiting to be told=20
> "Good night" before she leaves. Mira is an=20
> outdoor dog, as Missy was, and sleeps on the=20
> front steps.
>
> And who says goodnight to Mira's fellow clone,=20
> MissyToo? Mr. Hawthorne gave her to his mother,=20
> Joan Hawthorne, who still misses the original=20
> Missy. But she has yet to take a liking to=20
> Missy's progeny, and the dog has lived primarily=20
> with paid "handlers" in the Mill Valley=20
> pied-=E0-terre of her longtime companion, John=20
> Sperling.
>
> "They're not at all alike," Ms. Hawthorne said of=20
> the old Missy and the new one. "In looks, they=20
> are a little bit, of course. But, I mean, the=20
> puppy is delicate and aggressive. Missy was=20
> robust and completely calm." She added, "Missy=20
> wouldn't come through my home and knock over=20
> every wineglass."
>
> Besides, she adopted another puppy not long after=20
> Missy died. "I already have a dog - a real dog."
>
> The idea of trying to clone Missy in the first=20
> place came from Mr. Sperling, who has been in the=20
> family picture since Mr. Hawthorne was 4 years=20
> old - Mr. Hawthorne typically refers to him as=20
> his stepfather - back in 1997. At the time, Mr.=20
> Hawthorne was at a sort of career crossroads,=20
> having worked in the interactive video-production=20
> business and just returned from five months=20
> riding a motorcycle across India. Mr. Sperling,=20
> who would not agree to be interviewed, is a=20
> billionaire who founded the University of=20
> Phoenix, the adult-education institution with=20
> nearly 200 locations. Mr. Hawthorne said that his=20
> various fruitless attempts at cloning were paid=20
> for by more than $15 million of Mr. Sperling's=20
> money, some of which went to purchasing several=20
> competing and related biotech businesses in what=20
> Mr. Hawthorne described as an industry roll-up.
>
> "It's kind of weird," Mr. Hawthorne said. "They=20
> spent 10 years waiting for this to happen and=20
> then they don't even want the dogs living with=20
> them." In recent weeks, he added, Mr. Sperling=20
> has been making an effort to keep MissyToo with=20
> him at his house in San Francisco. ("He's going=20
> to have to launch on some serious dog training,"=20
> Ms. Hawthorne said of this new development.)
>
> On the day of the hike around the reservoir, Mr.=20
> Hawthorne, with a reporter as his audience,=20
> telephoned Nina and Ed Otto, auction winners in=20
> July - they paid $155,000 - who were about to=20
> learn that they were the proud owners of the=20
> project's first spawn. A clone of Lancelot, their=20
> late yellow Labrador, had been born a couple of=20
> days earlier in South Korea.
>
> =46rom the courtyard of a Starbucks, he dialed=20
> their home in Florida on his cellphone. "Your=20
> little Lancelot is here," Mr. Hawthorne informed=20
> Mrs. Otto.
>
> He followed up with date and time of birth,=20
> weight (540 grams, or 19 ounces), then e-mailed=20
> two pictures of the newborn as they spoke.
>
> "Breathe, breathe," Mr. Hawthorne said. "How does he look?"
>
> "He looks like Neanderthal Man," Mr. Otto called out from the background.
>
> "No, he doesn't," his wife said.
>
> "I can't say he looks exactly like our other one," Mr. Otto shouted.
>
> "Yes, he does," his wife said.
>
> Several days later - the Ottos will not see their=20
> new dog face-to-face until he is 10 weeks old,=20
> when they'll have him flown to the United States=20
> - Mrs. Otto said they were ecstatic about "having=20
> the essence of our Lancelot back."
>
> "We can barely contain ourselves," said Mr. Otto,=20
> the chief executive of a medical-equipment=20
> company whose father was an early Nascar=20
> promoter. "We have 8 children and 11=20
> grandchildren and 9 dogs. Lancelot was the dog=20
> that was most humanlike in his behavior. He died=20
> last year - cancer."
>
> Mrs. Otto said: "The only problem with dogs is=20
> that they have such a short life."
>
> "Cloning means you could have the opportunity to=20
> have the same dog with you for your entire life,"=20
> Mr. Otto said.
> --============_-981304218==_ma============
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
> <html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!--
> blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
>  --></style><title>Beloved Pets Everlasting?</title></head><body>
> <div>And a happy new year to all. --PG</div>
> <div><br>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/01/garden/01clones.html<br>
> <br>
> January 1, 2009</div>
> <div><br>
> Living Together<br>
> </div>
> <div><b>Beloved Pets Everlasting?</b><br>
> </div>
> <div>By ERIC KONIGSBERG<br>
> <br>
> =46airfax, Calif.<br>
> <br>
> THE most difficult thing about the cloned puppies is not telling them
> apart, but explaining why they don't look exactly alike. This was
> the problem Lou Hawthorne faced on a recent afternoon hike with Mira
> and MissyToo, two dogs whose embryos were created from the preserved,
> recycled and repurposed nuclear DNA of the original Missy, a border
> collie-husky mix who died in 2002.<br>
> <br>
> To be sure, they have a very strong resemblance to each other and to
> Missy. It's just that sometimes, as soon as people hear that the
> dogs are clones, the questions start coming:<br>
> <br>
> "Why is one dog's fur curlier?"<br>
> <br>
> "Why aren't the dogs the same size?"<br>
> <br>
> "Why is one of them darker?"<br>
> <br>
> "Why does this one have a floppy ear?"<br>
> <br>
> Mr. Hawthorne, who is 48, is highly invested in the notion of
> likeness. With clones, after all, what good does similar do? It is Mr.
> Hawthorne's biotech company, BioArts, which is based here in the Bay
> Area but has arrangements with a laboratory in South Korea, that
> performed the actual cloning.<br>
> <br>
> He also has particular reason to be sensitive to questions that touch
> on the authenticity of the clones, given the history of his chief
> geneticist, Dr. Hwang Woo Suk of the Sooam Biotech Research Foundation
> in South Korea. Dr. Hwang is perhaps best known for fraudulently
> reporting in 2004 that a team he led had successfully cloned human
> embryos and stem cells. After the false claims were unearthed, he was
> fired by Seoul National University, where he did his research as a
> professor. But he is also widely acknowledged for having been involved
> in successfully cloning an Afghan hound in 2005.<br>
> <br>
> "Dr. Hwang's past is obviously controversial, but we feel that his
> lab and his record when it comes to dog cloning are the best in the
> field," Mr. Hawthorne said. "He's been very open with me about
> admitting his mistakes. Nobody says he lied about cloning
> animals."<br>
> <br>
> Elizabeth Wictum, associate director of the Veterinary Genetics
> Laboratory at the University of California, Davis, said that earlier
> this year, she and her staff had taken sets of DNA extracts from Mr.
> Hawthorne's puppies and compared them with stored samples of
> Missy's DNA, and concluded that the results were "consistent with
> clones."<br>
> <br>
> "The puppies had the same nuclear DNA as Missy, and different
> mitochondrial DNA, which is what you get from a cloned animal," Ms.
> Wictum said. "If somebody were trying to, say, sneak in two samples
> from the same dog or an identical twin and claim that one was a
> clone's, there would be no differentiation between the nuclear and
> mitochondrial DNA."<br>
> <br>
> Missy 1.0 - Mira and MissyToo's "genetic donor," as Mr.
> Hawthorne calls her when he's speaking technically - was his
> mother's dog. To date, he said, there are four Missy clones running
> around, all born between December 2007 and June 2008. Mira lives at
> Mr. Hawthorne's house in Mill Valley and MissyToo between homes in
> Mill Valley and San Francisco, both owned by his mother's boyfriend;
> clones No. 3 and 4 were given away to friends and now live in Phoenix
> and Boulder, respectively. (Two others were produced but died of
> parvovirus as newborns.)<br>
> <br>
> In July, Mr. Hawthorne held a series of online auctions, offering his
> services to four high bidders who agreed to pay from $130,000 to
> $170,000 for clones of their dogs. (To offset accusations of elitism,
> Mr. Hawthorne also held a search for a fifth, pro bono client.) Over
> the last few weeks, the first three puppies from this group were born
> in South Korea.<br>
> <br>
> Mr. Hawthorne claims Missy's clones are the world's first
> commercially cloned dogs, although RNL Bio, a Korean company with
> which he is embroiled in a legal dispute over patent rights - and
> the chance to dominate the dog-cloning market - has also made this
> claim. Between 2004 and 2006, another company Mr. Hawthorne ran cloned
> cats for a handful of paying customers. Dogs are among the most
> difficult mammals to clone, scientists say, because their reproductive
> systems are highly atypical, but Mr. Hawthorne thinks that the market
> is keen.</div>
> <div><br>
> When Mr. Hawthorne recalls Missy, he tends to wax eugenic. "She was
> an amazing dog: superior intellect, incredibly beautiful, obedient, a
> phenomenal temperament," he said. "I especially loved her majestic
> plume of a tail." And in the clones, as he put it matter-of-factly,
> "all those qualities are represented."<br>
> <br>
> As for some of the discrepancies, the clones vary in size and color,
> Mr. Hawthorne said, primarily because they were born months apart, and
> none are fully grown yet. "The dark part of their fur starts out
> reddish-black and gets blacker over time," he said. "Except on the
> faces, which start out black and go white within the first
> year."<br>
> <br>
> Each clone's embryo was created by joining Missy's nuclear DNA
> with the enucleated (which is to say, DNA-stripped) egg of a different
> dog. The eggs, with their new DNA from Missy, began to grow and
> divide. After that, each was carried to term in the uterus of still
> another dog - a step which, though it has no bearing on the dogs'
> genetic makeup, can affect such external traits as the waviness of fur
> and the up-or-down pointing of the ears. (It has to do with different
> levels of collagen.)<br>
> <br>
> On his afternoon trek around Lake Lagunitas, Mr. Hawthorne did his
> best to explain these matters to his audience, picnicking families who
> sat transfixed as the two dogs he calls "clisters" - his made-up
> word for clone sisters - took turns chasing each other off
> leash.<br>
> <br>
> "Can they clone coconut?" a girl asked.<br>
> <br>
> "Sorry, we don't do vegetables," Mr. Hawthorne said.<br>
> <br>
> A parent clarified: Coconut was the family dog's name. "Can you
> clone a three-year-old housebroken dog?"<br>
> <br>
> Mr. Hawthorne went on gamely. "Learned behavior, no. But a lot of
> behavior is hereditary," he said.<br>
> <br>
> While he does acknowledge that when it comes to such highly trainable
> creatures as dogs, it's pretty difficult to know where nature ends
> and nurture begins, he said that in the case of his dogs, the
> ambiguities have nothing on the essential Missy-ness of the
> clones.<br>
> <br>
> "The girls love to run after each other," he said pointing at the
> dogs in the distance. "You see the speed and athleticism? That's
> part of what made me want to do this. There are dogs that are faster
> on a straightaway, but I'd never seen a dog make turns like this
> until Missy."<br>
> <br>
> Mr. Hawthorne sees himself as a cultivator of prodigious talent -
> from the clones to his team of scientists in South Korea to his
> 8-year-old son, Skye, who had accompanied him and the dogs on the
> hike. Skye is in third grade but is already studying high school
> algebra. Mr. Hawthorne brought along a notebook with a handful of
> quadratic-equation problems, in case his son got restless.<br>
> <br>
> Last spring, Skye completed a science project, "Cloning Grandma's
> Dog" that included a behavioral comparison chart. Among other
> findings, the study concluded that Mira shares Missy's fondness for
> broccoli and "lots of snuggles" - both dogs scored five out of
> five points in these categories, in addition to the one for "likes
> long walks." ("Most dogs do," Skye noted under "comments.")
> Two key matters of variance were "Jumps into cars" ("Clone still
> learning which car is ours") and "Hates camera flash" ("Clone
> did not respond to standard flash").<br>
> <br>
> Ultimately, Skye determined that Mira looked a lot like Missy but that
> their behavior was only 77 percent similar. "But that was April,"
> Mr. Hawthorne said. "I think they're a lot more similar
> now."<br>
> <br>
> LIVING with a clone, Mr. Hawthorne claims, is a lot like living with
> the original dog. "It's totally as if I've got Missy in my
> house, once you get over the 'wow' factor," he said. He and Mira
> and Skye inhabit a two-story "1950s futurist house" built into a
> hill in Mill Valley (Mr. Hawthorne is divorced and shares custody of
> his son with his ex-wife - "an excellent genetic donor, by the
> way," he said of her). At night, he said, Mira "puts Skye to bed,"
> which means she walks with him to his room and ascends the stairs of
> his loft bed with him, waiting to be told "Good night" before she
> leaves. Mira is an outdoor dog, as Missy was, and sleeps on the front
> steps.<br>
> <br>
> And who says goodnight to Mira's fellow clone, MissyToo? Mr.
> Hawthorne gave her to his mother, Joan Hawthorne, who still misses the
> original Missy. But she has yet to take a liking to Missy's progeny,
> and the dog has lived primarily with paid "handlers" in the Mill
> Valley pied-=E0-terre of her longtime companion, John Sperling.</div>
> <div><br>
> "They're not at all alike," Ms. Hawthorne said of the old Missy
> and the new one. "In looks, they are a little bit, of course. But, I
> mean, the puppy is delicate and aggressive. Missy was robust and
> completely calm." She added, "Missy wouldn't come through my
> home and knock over every wineglass."<br>
> <br>
> Besides, she adopted another puppy not long after Missy died. "I
> already have a dog - a real dog."<br>
> <br>
> The idea of trying to clone Missy in the first place came from Mr.
> Sperling, who has been in the family picture since Mr. Hawthorne was 4
> years old - Mr. Hawthorne typically refers to him as his stepfather
> - back in 1997. At the time, Mr. Hawthorne was at a sort of career
> crossroads, having worked in the interactive video-production business
> and just returned from five months riding a motorcycle across India.
> Mr. Sperling, who would not agree to be interviewed, is a billionaire
> who founded the University of Phoenix, the adult-education institution
> with nearly 200 locations. Mr. Hawthorne said that his various
> fruitless attempts at cloning were paid for by more than $15 million
> of Mr. Sperling's money, some of which went to purchasing several
> competing and related biotech businesses in what Mr. Hawthorne
> described as an industry roll-up.<br>
> <br>
> "It's kind of weird," Mr. Hawthorne said. "They spent 10 years
> waiting for this to happen and then they don't even want the dogs
> living with them." In recent weeks, he added, Mr. Sperling has been
> making an effort to keep MissyToo with him at his house in San
> =46rancisco. ("He's going to have to launch on some serious dog
> training," Ms. Hawthorne said of this new development.)<br>
> <br>
> On the day of the hike around the reservoir, Mr. Hawthorne, with a
> reporter as his audience, telephoned Nina and Ed Otto, auction winners
> in July - they paid $155,000 - who were about to learn that they
> were the proud owners of the project's first spawn. A clone of
> Lancelot, their late yellow Labrador, had been born a couple of days
> earlier in South Korea.<br>
> <br>
> =46rom the courtyard of a Starbucks, he dialed their home in Florida on
> his cellphone. "Your little Lancelot is here," Mr. Hawthorne
> informed Mrs. Otto.<br>
> <br>
> He followed up with date and time of birth, weight (540 grams, or 19
> ounces), then e-mailed two pictures of the newborn as they spoke.<br>
> <br>
> "Breathe, breathe," Mr. Hawthorne said. "How does he
> look?"<br>
> <br>
> "He looks like Neanderthal Man," Mr. Otto called out from the
> background.<br>
> <br>
> "No, he doesn't," his wife said.<br>
> <br>
> "I can't say he looks exactly like our other one," Mr. Otto
> shouted.<br>
> <br>
> "Yes, he does," his wife said.<br>
> <br>
> Several days later - the Ottos will not see their new dog
> face-to-face until he is 10 weeks old, when they'll have him flown
> to the United States - Mrs. Otto said they were ecstatic about
> "having the essence of our Lancelot back."<br>
> <br>
> "We can barely contain ourselves," said Mr. Otto, the chief
> executive of a medical-equipment company whose father was an early
> Nascar promoter. "We have 8 children and 11 grandchildren and 9
> dogs. Lancelot was the dog that was most humanlike in his behavior. He
> died last year - cancer."<br>
> <br>
> Mrs. Otto said: "The only problem with dogs is that they have such a
> short life."<br>
> </div>
> <div>"Cloning means you could have the opportunity to have the same
> dog with you for your entire life," Mr. Otto said.</div>
> </body>
> </html>
> --============_-981304218==_ma============--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 16:17:00 +0100
> From:    Michael Balter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>
> ------=_Part_187443_4766265.1230823020298
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> I read this with interest, but I think it has limited relevance to the
> earlier discussion of obesity (in which neither Michael G. nor Phil have
> responded to the evidence I presented that they were working off of two
> stereotypes, the first that there is a close relationship between poverty
> and obesity and the second that low-income people don't have access to
> supermarkets.)
>
> The Kohn article deals with self-discipline in the sense of internalizing
> the expectations of others, and primarily in the context of teachers getting
> students to do "what they're supposed to do on their own," as he puts it in
> the first paragraph.
>
> But the issue I am stressing is taking responsibility for one's own life,
> which may well require self-discipline but which does not have the primary
> goal of doing what others want. In the case of obesity, which is damaging to
> one's health, it is in one's own best interest to lose weight.
>
> Later in the piece, Kohn argues that "self-discipline" is a conservative
> concept, saying: "There is no reason to work for social change if we assume
> that people just need to buckle down and try harder." This is true if
> self-discipline is a means to conforming to the expectations of the powers
> that be, rather than to one's own self-interest. Indeed, I would argue that
> fighting for major social change--such as that socialist revolution many on
> this list are keen about--requires taking responsibility for one's own
> relationship to the power structure and the ruling class, as a crucial first
> step towards taking an active vs passive stance in the face of oppression
> and injustice. In other words, political activists cannot be effective
> collectively if they are not active agents in their own rights, which also
> means thinking for themselves rather than following party lines or
> politically correct nostrums (Carrol thought thinking for oneself is also a
> nostrum, but I would urge him to try it out first.)
>
> Ultimately, to lose weight, one must exercise more and eat less, no matter
> how well one understands the power structure/system that may indirectly make
> obesity more likely. And ultimately, no matter how great one's understanding
> of the system, each individual must act--and act in a relevant, useful,
> effective way--to change it. Victims, no; victors, yes!
>
> All best for 2009,
>
> MB
>
> PS: On a topic we are all interested in, I have been collecting various
> sources about Israel's bombardment of Gaza on my blog. I hope list members
> might find them of use:
>
> http://michael-balter.blogspot.com/2009/01/human-rights-groups-to-defense-minister.html
>
> http://michael-balter.blogspot.com/2008/12/israels-war-crimes.html
>
> http://michael-balter.blogspot.com/2008/12/where-are-barack-obama-and-hillary.html
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 10:09 PM, Michael H Goldhaber <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/selfdiscipline.htm
>> Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated:
>>
>> The (Troubling) Theory and Practice of Control from Within
>>
>> By Alfie Kohn.
>>
>> this article seem relevant to earlier discussion about responsibility and
>> obesity.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Michael
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ******************************************
> Michael Balter
> Contributing Correspondent, Science
> Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
> Boston University
>
> Email:           [log in to unmask]
>
> Website:       michaelbalter.com
> Balter's Blog: michael-balter.blogspot.com
> ******************************************
>
> ------=_Part_187443_4766265.1230823020298
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> I read this with interest, but I think it has limited relevance to the earl=
> ier discussion of obesity (in which neither Michael G. nor Phil have respon=
> ded to the evidence I presented that they were working off of two stereotyp=
> es, the first that there is a close relationship between poverty and obesit=
> y and the second that low-income people don&#39;t have access to supermarke=
> ts.)<br>
> <br>The Kohn article deals with self-discipline in the sense of internalizi=
> ng the expectations of others, and primarily in the context of teachers get=
> ting students to do &quot;what they&#39;re supposed to do on their own,&quo=
> t; as he puts it in the first paragraph.<br>
> <br>But the issue I am stressing is taking responsibility for one&#39;s own=
>  life, which may well require self-discipline but which does not have the p=
> rimary goal of doing what others want. In the case of obesity, which is dam=
> aging to one&#39;s health, it is in one&#39;s own best interest to lose wei=
> ght. <br>
> <br>Later in the piece, Kohn argues that &quot;self-discipline&quot; is a c=
> onservative concept, saying: &quot;There is no reason to work for social ch=
> ange if we assume that people just need to buckle down and try harder.&quot=
> ; This is true if self-discipline is a means to conforming to the expectati=
> ons of the powers that be, rather than to one&#39;s own self-interest. Inde=
> ed, I would argue that fighting for major social change--such as that socia=
> list revolution many on this list are keen about--requires taking responsib=
> ility for one&#39;s own relationship to the power structure and the ruling =
> class, as a crucial first step towards taking an active vs passive stance i=
> n the face of oppression and injustice. In other words, political activists=
>  cannot be effective collectively if they are not active agents in their ow=
> n rights, which also means thinking for themselves rather than following pa=
> rty lines or politically correct nostrums (Carrol thought thinking for ones=
> elf is also a nostrum, but I would urge him to try it out first.)<br>
> <br>Ultimately, to lose weight, one must exercise more and eat less, no mat=
> ter how well one understands the power structure/system that may indirectly=
>  make obesity more likely. And ultimately, no matter how great one&#39;s un=
> derstanding of the system, each individual must act--and act in a relevant,=
>  useful, effective way--to change it. Victims, no; victors, yes!<br>
> <br>All best for 2009,<br><br>MB<br><br>PS: On a topic we are all intereste=
> d in, I have been collecting various sources about Israel&#39;s bombardment=
>  of Gaza on my blog. I hope list members might find them of use:<br><br>
> <a href=3D"http://michael-balter.blogspot.com/2009/01/human-rights-groups-t=
> o-defense-minister.html">http://michael-balter.blogspot.com/2009/01/human-r=
> ights-groups-to-defense-minister.html</a><br><br><a href=3D"http://michael-=
> balter.blogspot.com/2008/12/israels-war-crimes.html">http://michael-balter.=
> blogspot.com/2008/12/israels-war-crimes.html</a><br>
> <br><a href=3D"http://michael-balter.blogspot.com/2008/12/where-are-barack-=
> obama-and-hillary.html">http://michael-balter.blogspot.com/2008/12/where-ar=
> e-barack-obama-and-hillary.html</a><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On We=
> d, Dec 31, 2008 at 10:09 PM, Michael H Goldhaber <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
> ref=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
> 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><a href=3D"http:/=
> /www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/selfdiscipline.htm" target=3D"_blank">http://ww=
> w.alfiekohn.org/teaching/selfdiscipline.htm</a><br>
>
> Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated:<br>
> <br>
> The (Troubling) Theory and Practice of Control from Within<br>
> <br>
> By Alfie Kohn.<br>
> <br>
> this article seem relevant to earlier discussion about responsibility and o=
> besity.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Best,<br><font color=3D"#888888">
> Michael<br>
> </font></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>****************=
> **************************<br>Michael Balter<br>Contributing Correspondent,=
>  Science<br>Adjunct Professor of Journalism,<br>Boston University<br><br>
> Email: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:michael.balter@=
> gmail.com">[log in to unmask]</a><br><br>Website: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
> ; <a href=3D"http://michaelbalter.com">michaelbalter.com</a><br>Balter&#39;=
> s Blog: <a href=3D"http://michael-balter.blogspot.com">michael-balter.blogs=
> pot.com</a><br>
> ****************************************** <br>
>
> ------=_Part_187443_4766265.1230823020298--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 10:31:51 -0500
> From:    Louis R Godena <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0298_01C96BFC.287DBF30
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>> ...each individual must act--and act in a relevant, useful, effective =
> way--to change [conditions]. Victims, no; victors, yes!
>
> I agree.  It is far too late for the "liberal" zionists and "human =
> rights" hypocrites like the professor here to "save" the genocidal =
> entity by some apartheid South Africa-style "two state" solution.  =
> Millions of displaced Palestinians cry out for the right to return to =
> their homeland.  The racist settler state will be replaced with a =
> democratic, secular Palestine with equal rights for ALL.
>
> And all the world will rejoice.
>
> Louis Godena
> ------=_NextPart_000_0298_01C96BFC.287DBF30
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3314" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV>&gt;...each individual must act--and act in a relevant, useful, =
> effective=20
> way--to change [conditions]. Victims, no; victors, yes!<BR><BR><FONT =
> face=3DArial=20
> size=3D2>I agree.&nbsp; It is far too late for the "liberal" zionists =
> and "human=20
> rights" hypocrites like the professor here to "save" the genocidal =
> entity by=20
> some apartheid South Africa-style "two state" solution.&nbsp; Millions =
> of=20
> displaced Palestinians cry out for the right to return to their =
> homeland.&nbsp;=20
> The racist settler state will be replaced with a democratic, secular =
> Palestine=20
> with equal rights for ALL.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And all the world will =
> rejoice.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Louis Godena</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0298_01C96BFC.287DBF30--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 17:12:06 +0100
> From:    Michael Balter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>
> ------=_Part_187740_33047402.1230826326520
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> I've allowed Louis Godena to misrepresent my position in the past (he called
> me a "racist hypocrite" on one occasion, which drew no protest from our
> moderator), but I am not going to continue to do so. As anyone who reads my
> blog knows, I am strongly anti-Zionist and I do not support a two-state
> solution as the eventual resolution; I am strongly in favor of a one-state
> solution, although two states may well end up being the only possible
> provisional route to that ultimate outcome. If we could go straight to one
> state, I would be entirely in favor of it, but it may not be realistic.
>
> MB
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Louis R Godena
> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>>  >...each individual must act--and act in a relevant, useful, effective
>> way--to change [conditions]. Victims, no; victors, yes!
>>
>> I agree.  It is far too late for the "liberal" zionists and "human rights"
>> hypocrites like the professor here to "save" the genocidal entity by some
>> apartheid South Africa-style "two state" solution.  Millions of displaced
>> Palestinians cry out for the right to return to their homeland.  The racist
>> settler state will be replaced with a democratic, secular Palestine with
>> equal rights for ALL.
>>
>> And all the world will rejoice.
>>
>> Louis Godena
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ******************************************
> Michael Balter
> Contributing Correspondent, Science
> Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
> Boston University
>
> Email:           [log in to unmask]
>
> Website:       michaelbalter.com
> Balter's Blog: michael-balter.blogspot.com
> ******************************************
>
> ------=_Part_187740_33047402.1230826326520
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> I&#39;ve allowed Louis Godena to misrepresent my position in the   
> past (he called me a &quot;racist hypocrite&quot; on one occasion,   
> which drew no protest from our moderator), but I am not going to   
> continue to do so. As anyone who reads my blog knows, I am strongly   
> anti-Zionist and I do not support a two-state solution as the   
> eventual resolution; I am strongly in favor of a one-state solution,  
>  although two states may well end up being the only possible   
> provisional route to that ultimate outcome. If we could go straight   
> to one state, I would be entirely in favor of it, but it may not be   
> realistic.<br>
> <br>MB<br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 1, 2009   
> at 4:31 PM, Louis R Godena <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a   
> href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left:   
> 1ex;">
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <div bgcolor="#ffffff">
> <div>&gt;...each individual must act--and act in a relevant, useful,  
>  effective
> way--to change [conditions]. Victims, no; victors, yes!<br><br><font  
>  size="2" face="Arial">I agree.&nbsp; It is far too late for the   
> &quot;liberal&quot; zionists and &quot;human
> rights&quot; hypocrites like the professor here to &quot;save&quot;   
> the genocidal entity by
> some apartheid South Africa-style &quot;two state&quot;   
> solution.&nbsp; Millions of
> displaced Palestinians cry out for the right to return to their   
> homeland.&nbsp;
> The racist settler state will be replaced with a democratic, secular  
>  Palestine
> with equal rights for ALL.</font></div>
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial">And all the world will rejoice.</font></div>
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div><font color="#888888">
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Louis Godena</font></div></font></div>
> </blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>--   
> <br>******************************************<br>Michael   
> Balter<br>Contributing Correspondent, Science<br>Adjunct Professor   
> of Journalism,<br>Boston University<br><br>Email: &nbsp; &nbsp;   
> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a   
> href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br>
> <br>Website: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a   
> href="http://michaelbalter.com">michaelbalter.com</a><br>Balter&#39;s Blog:   
> <a   
> href="http://michael-balter.blogspot.com">michael-balter.blogspot.com</a><br>******************************************   
> <br>
>
>
> ------=_Part_187740_33047402.1230826326520--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 12:24:29 -0500
> From:    Jim West <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: 911 and Mitchel Cohen
>
> Mitchel, because he lives in NYC, has had a much closer view of "911" tha=
> n
> the TV heads, and he has confronted 911 propaganda, witnesses, and politi=
> cs
> -- firsthand.
>
> Ignorance, however, supports its position with argumentum ad hominem,
> argumentum ad populi, and censorship.
>
> =3D=3D
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:22:13 -0800, mart <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> my biochem teacher told me once when you have 2 unsolved problems someti=
> mes
> the solution to each one is also the solution to the other.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=
> =BD(eg making
> newtonian mechanics consistant with electrodynamics also solves the probl=
> em
> of the speed of light=EF=BF=BDwith respect to the ether.)=EF=BF=BD so, si=
> nce we know that
> hiv doesn't cause AIDS, and that it is not possible that planes could hav=
> e
> knocked down the WTC-7, it follows that hiv knocked down wtc and the
> pentagon.=EF=BF=BDbut, this has nothing to do with pesticides (though pos=
> sibly the
> polio vaccine). =EF=BF=BD
>>
>> --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Michael Balter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> From: Michael Balter <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: Understanding 9-11: Mitchel talking Tuesday aft. in Philly,=
>
> with others
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 2:06 AM
>>
>>
>> Was 9/11 a mass pesticide spraying program gone terribly wrong?
>>
>> Sorry I will not be able to hear Mitchel's thoughts on this but will che=
> ck
> out the paper at the link provided.=20
>>
>> MB
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 7:16 AM, Mitchel Cohen
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> If you're free and find yourself in Philadelphia Tuesday afternoon,
> December 30th, I'll be giving a talk along with these other fine panelist=
> s
> at the very last workshop of this year's American Philosophy Association,=
>
> taking place at the Philadelphia Marriott Downtown, 1201 Market Street,
> Philadelphia PA 19107,=EF=BF=BD 215 625 2900 .=EF=BF=BD (Since it's the l=
> ast panel, you'll
> probably be able to sneak in for free .... not sure of the room number.)
>>
>> - Mitchel
>>
>>
>> Society for the Philosophical Study of Marxism
>> 1:30-4:30 p.m.
>>
>> Topic: Understanding 9/11: Propaganda, Deep Politics, and "Recalibrating=
>
> Marxism"
>>
>> Chair: Richard Curtis (Cornish College of the Arts)
>>
>> Speakers: Mitchel Cohen (Independent Scholar)
>> "The Politics Behind 9/11 and the Orchestration of Crises"
>> [that's how it's listed, but my talk will be about the Mass-Spraying of
> Pesticides feeding into 9-11, and the Orchestration of Crises]
>>
>> Richard Curtis (Cornish College of the Arts)
>> "Artificial Enemies: Straussian Lies and the So-called War on Terror"
>>
>> Bryan Sacks (Drexel University)
>> "Disaster Planning or Planning Disaster? Media Taboos in the Post-9/11 W=
> orld"
>>
>> Paul Zarembka (University at Buffalo=EF=BF=BDState University of New Yor=
> k) and
> David MacGregor (University of Western Ontario)
>> "Marxism and 9/11"
>>
>> (Papers will be available at www.pages.drexel.edu/~pa34/spsm_website.htm=
> .)=20
>>
>>
>>
>> --=20
>> ******************************************
>> Michael Balter
>> Contributing Correspondent, Science
>> Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
>> Boston University
>>
>> Email: =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD michael.balter@=
> gmail.com
>>
>> Website: =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD michaelbalter.com
>> Balter's Blog: michael-balter.blogspot.com
>> ******************************************=20
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 12:26:13 -0500
> From:    Louis R Godena <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_02C8_01C96C0C.22ECC740
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Clearly, the professor's lofty "let them eat cake" ideals of =
> self-abnegation personal initiative should be applied ONLY to =
> impoverished women and children in the crushed enclaves of our inner =
> cities, and NOT to the people of Gaza or the West Bank or to Occupied =
> Palestine in general. =20
>
> The "two-state solution," which he implicitly or explicitly endorses =
> exists only among those (like Sharon and Bush) who hope, in their heart =
> of hearts, that the Palestinians can be "ghettoized" into non-existence. =
>  It has about as much credibility now as the old Republican canard about =
> "using the maket to reform Social Security" has in 2009.   As the =
> European Right once longed for a "Judenfrei" Europe (a wish devoutly =
> held by quite a number of non or even "anti" Nazis in England and =
> throughout Western Europe), the modern "liberal" zionist now pines for a =
> disinherited Palestinian "nation", whose "nobility" will be the only =
> compensation paid to that long-suffering people.
>
> One cannot carry messages for the rich against Castro and Chavez (whose =
> sins are dwarfed by the current leaderships in Tel Aviv and Washington), =
> and in the same breath offer nothing in this forum against far worse =
> crimes closer to home.
>
> That is the issue.
>
> Louis Godena
>
> =20
>   ----- Original Message -----=20
>   From: Michael Balter=20
>   To: [log in to unmask]
>   Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:12 AM
>   Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>
>
>   I've allowed Louis Godena to misrepresent my position in the past (he =
> called me a "racist hypocrite" on one occasion, which drew no protest =
> from our moderator), but I am not going to continue to do so. As anyone =
> who reads my blog knows, I am strongly anti-Zionist and I do not support =
> a two-state solution as the eventual resolution; I am strongly in favor =
> of a one-state solution, although two states may well end up being the =
> only possible provisional route to that ultimate outcome. If we could go =
> straight to one state, I would be entirely in favor of it, but it may =
> not be realistic.
>
>   MB
>
>
>
>
>   On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Louis R Godena =
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>     >...each individual must act--and act in a relevant, useful, =
> effective way--to change [conditions]. Victims, no; victors, yes!
>
>     I agree.  It is far too late for the "liberal" zionists and "human =
> rights" hypocrites like the professor here to "save" the genocidal =
> entity by some apartheid South Africa-style "two state" solution.  =
> Millions of displaced Palestinians cry out for the right to return to =
> their homeland.  The racist settler state will be replaced with a =
> democratic, secular Palestine with equal rights for ALL.
>
>     And all the world will rejoice.
>
>     Louis Godena
>
>
>
>   --=20
>   ******************************************
>   Michael Balter
>   Contributing Correspondent, Science
>   Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
>   Boston University
>
>   Email:           [log in to unmask]
>
>   Website:       michaelbalter.com
>   Balter's Blog: michael-balter.blogspot.com
>   ******************************************=20
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_02C8_01C96C0C.22ECC740
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3314" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Clearly, the professor's lofty "let =
> them eat cake"=20
> ideals of self-abnegation personal initiative&nbsp;should be =
> applied&nbsp;ONLY=20
> to impoverished women and children in the crushed enclaves of our inner =
> cities,=20
> and NOT to the people of Gaza or the West Bank or to&nbsp;Occupied =
> Palestine=20
> in&nbsp;general.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The "two-state solution," which he =
> implicitly or=20
> explicitly endorses exists&nbsp;only among those (like Sharon and Bush) =
> who=20
> hope, in their heart of hearts, that the Palestinians can be =
> "ghettoized" into=20
> non-existence.&nbsp; It has about as much credibility now as the old =
> Republican=20
> canard about "using the maket to reform Social Security" has in=20
> 2009.&nbsp;&nbsp; As the European Right once longed for a "Judenfrei" =
> Europe (a=20
> wish devoutly held by quite a number of non or even "anti" Nazis in =
> England and=20
> throughout Western Europe), the modern "liberal" zionist now pines for a =
>
> disinherited Palestinian "nation", whose "nobility" will be the only=20
> compensation paid to that long-suffering people.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One cannot carry messages for the rich =
> against=20
> Castro and Chavez (whose sins are dwarfed by the current leaderships in =
> Tel Aviv=20
> and Washington), and in the same breath offer nothing in this forum =
> against far=20
> worse crimes closer to home.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>That </EM>is the =
> issue.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Louis Godena</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>   <DIV=20
>   style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
> black"><B>From:</B>=20
>   <A [log in to unmask]
>   href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Michael Balter</A> </DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
>   [log in to unmask]
>   =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPL=
> [log in to unmask]</A>=20
>   </DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 01, =
> 2009 11:12=20
>   AM</DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: "Why =
> Self-Discipline Is=20
>   Overrated"by Alfie Kohn</DIV>
>   <DIV><BR></DIV>I've allowed Louis Godena to misrepresent my position =
> in the=20
>   past (he called me a "racist hypocrite" on one occasion, which drew no =
> protest=20
>   from our moderator), but I am not going to continue to do so. As =
> anyone who=20
>   reads my blog knows, I am strongly anti-Zionist and I do not support a =
>
>   two-state solution as the eventual resolution; I am strongly in favor =
> of a=20
>   one-state solution, although two states may well end up being the only =
>
>   possible provisional route to that ultimate outcome. If we could go =
> straight=20
>   to one state, I would be entirely in favor of it, but it may not be=20
>   realistic.<BR><BR>MB<BR><BR><BR><BR>
>   <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Louis R =
> Godena <SPAN=20
>   dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A=20
>   =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>=
> &gt;</SPAN>=20
>   wrote:<BR>
>   <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
>   style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
> rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
>     <DIV bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
>     <DIV>&gt;...each individual must act--and act in a relevant, useful, =
>
>     effective way--to change [conditions]. Victims, no; victors,=20
>     yes!<BR><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I agree.&nbsp; It is far too =
> late for=20
>     the "liberal" zionists and "human rights" hypocrites like the =
> professor here=20
>     to "save" the genocidal entity by some apartheid South Africa-style =
> "two=20
>     state" solution.&nbsp; Millions of displaced Palestinians cry out =
> for the=20
>     right to return to their homeland.&nbsp; The racist settler state =
> will be=20
>     replaced with a democratic, secular Palestine with equal rights for=20
>     ALL.</FONT></DIV>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And all the world will =
> rejoice.</FONT></DIV>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT =
> color=3D#888888>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Louis=20
>   Godena</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR =
> clear=3Dall><BR>--=20
>   <BR>******************************************<BR>Michael=20
>   Balter<BR>Contributing Correspondent, Science<BR>Adjunct Professor of=20
>   Journalism,<BR>Boston University<BR><BR>Email: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
> &nbsp;=20
>   &nbsp; <A=20
>   =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A><BR>=
> <BR>Website:=20
>   &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <A=20
>   href=3D"http://michaelbalter.com">michaelbalter.com</A><BR>Balter's =
> Blog: <A=20
>   =
> href=3D"http://michael-balter.blogspot.com">michael-balter.blogspot.com</=
> A><BR>******************************************=20
>   <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_02C8_01C96C0C.22ECC740--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 12:28:20 -0500
> From:    Louis R Godena <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: HPV vaccine controversy in India
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_02D1_01C96C0C.6E807710
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> 	boundary="----=_NextPart_001_02D2_01C96C0C.6E807710"
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_001_02D2_01C96C0C.6E807710
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>   =
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Health__Science/Cancer_vaccine_kicks_u=
> p_controversy/articleshow/3912139.cms Printed from
>                 =20
>                 =20
>
>                 =20
>           =20
>              =20
>                   =20
>
>
>                 =20
>
>                 =20
>                   Cancer vaccine kicks up controversy in India
>
>                   30 Dec 2008, 1122 hrs IST, IANS=20
>
>
>
>                 =20
>                   BANGALORE: An advertising blitz launched by a =
> multinational drug firm to promote its high profile but controversial =
> cancer vaccine has left Indian households confused and health workers =
> worried.=20
>
>                   The 15-second commercials seen recently on Indian =
> television urge parents to get their young girls inoculated with the =
> vaccine Gardasil to protect against cervical cancer, the second =
> commonest major cancer in women.=20
>
>                   What the ad hides, of course, is that the vaccine is =
> mired in a controversy in the United States over its safety and the =
> ethics of administering it to girls as young as nine.=20
>
>                   The vaccine manufactured by Merck & Co blocks two =
> strains of the human papillomavirus (HPV 16 and 18) which are known to =
> cause about 70% of cervical cancers.=20
>
>                   The US Food and Drugs Administration authorised sale =
> of the vaccine in that country in June 2006. The company launched it in =
> India in October 2008 and followed it with television advertisements =
> that tend to make the parents believe that their daughters risk dying of =
> cervical cancer if not vaccinated.=20
>
>                   Advertising prescription drugs on television is =
> unethical enough, but using fear to sell them is worse, according to =
> medical scientists aware of the controversy in the US.=20
>
>                   Gardasil is an efficient vaccine but the safety and =
> risk information about it has not been made available to parents to =
> enable them make an informed decision about vaccinating their daughters, =
> says Kumaravel Somasundaram, a cancer expert at the Indian Institute of =
> Science in Bangalore. "We did not debate the issues even within the =
> science community before the vaccine arrived in the market," he said.=20
>
>                   Its exorbitant listed price - $120 (Rs 5,800) per dose =
> and three shots are required - is the least of the concerns about the =
> vaccines, says Jacob Puliyel, consultant paediatrician at the St. =
> Stephens Hospital in Delhi. "What bothers me is the reported side =
> effect." A Google search with just two key words 'gardasil+safety' lists =
> 263,000 reports relating to side effects.=20
>
>                   As of August 31, the US Centres of Disease Control =
> (CDC) had received more than 10,000 adverse event reports, including 27 =
> deaths following Gardasil vaccination. According to CDC, seizures, blood =
> clots and paralysis accounted for six% of adverse events classified as =
> "serious", while fainting, fever and headaches made up the rest. But the =
> US health officials and Merck have dismissed the adverse events as =
> "unrelated to the vaccine" and have claimed that the vaccine is safe.=20
>
>                   Puliyel says the Gardasil vaccination raises an =
> ethical issue as it can only prevent, but not treat HPV infection. Since =
> HPV is sexually transmitted, the vaccine needs to be given before a girl =
> becomes sexually active - ideally at the age of 11. "The underlying =
> assumption here is that adolescent girls in India may all become =
> promiscuous," says Puliyel.=20
>
>                   An August 21 editorial in the New England Journal of =
> Medicine noted that Gardasil's "long-term effectiveness is unclear" =
> since no participants have been followed for more than five years while =
> most cervical cancers take 10 years to develop.=20
>
>                   "While it has been shown that the HPV vaccines prevent =
> pre-cancerous lesions, we don't know if they will prevent cancer =
> itself," the editorial said.=20
>
>                   The journal also raised two other questions: One, most =
> HPV infections clear on their own in 1-2 years through the body's =
> natural immune response. Will the vaccine interfere with this natural =
> process and, if so, in what ways? Two, since only two of the cancer =
> causing strains of HPV are suppressed by Gardasil, will other strains =
> take their place? More than 160 types of HPV are known to exist.=20
>
>                   "With so many essential questions still unanswered, =
> there is good reason to be cautious about introducing large-scale =
> vaccination programmes (with Gardasil)," says Charlotte Haug, editor in =
> chief of the Journal of the Norwegian Medical Association.=20
>
>                   "There is too little long-term safety and efficacy =
> data, especially in young girls," says Tom Fitton, president of Judicial =
> Watch, a public interest group in Washington. "It looks as if an =
> unproven vaccine with dangerous side effects is being pushed as a =
> miracle drug."=20
>
>                   Merck spokesperson Vince Docherty however told IANS =
> that the vaccine was tested in approximately 25,000 people in the United =
> States and around the world, "and found to be safe and effective in =
> preventing serious HPV-related diseases".=20
>
>                   According to the company, the vaccine launched in =
> India can be given to women from age 10 to 26. The office of the Drug =
> Controller General of India did not reply to questions on how the =
> vaccine was allowed to be sold without the mandatory clinical trial on =
> local population. The trial in the 16-23 age group, originally proposed =
> by the Indian Council of Medical Research in early 2008, has not started =
> for reasons not known.=20
>
>                   The Merck spokesperson however said that Indian =
> regulators approved the sale of Gardasil in July 2008 on the basis of =
> "clinical efficacy and safety data" generated worldwide and the results =
> of a clinical trial carried out in India in 2007 in 110 healthy girls in =
> the 9-15 age group. The company had outsourced the trial to unnamed =
> contract research organisations and the results have not been published. =
> The Merck official said the results are "in the process" of being =
> published.=20
>
>                   According to the American Cancer Society, virtually =
> all cervical cancers can be prevented if any pre-cancerous cells =
> detected during routine "Pap" test are treated immediately. The Pap test =
> that costs about Rs 200 can detect changes on a woman's cervix even =
> before cancer develops, when it is most curable. Between 1955 and 1992 =
> the number of cervical cancer deaths in the United States dropped by 74% =
> by the use of Pap test alone, without any vaccination.=20
>
>                   The American vaccine watchdog, Virginia-based National =
> Vaccine Information Center, has cautioned that Gardasil vaccine could =
> lull people into a false sense of security. It says that since the =
> vaccine protects only against a few strains of HPV responsible for 70% =
> of cervical cancers, "it will be important for women to continue getting =
> screened by regular Pap tests" to guard against the remaining 30% of =
> cervical cancers caused by other dangerous strains of HPV.=20
>
>                   Critics say that the Indian health ministry which =
> acted so fast to put the controversial Merck vaccine on chemist shops =
> ahead of the clinical trial (in the 16-23 age group) should have instead =
> promoted the inexpensive Pap test across the nation if it was really =
> serious about reducing cervical cancer deaths. =20
>
>                 =20
>
>                 =20
>
>                 =20
>
>                 =20
>
>                 =20
>
>                 =20
>
>                 =20
>
>                 =20
>           =20
>             About Us | Advertise with Us | Careers @ TIL | Terms of Use =
> | Privacy Policy | Feedback | Sitemap
>             Copyright =A9 2008 Bennett Coleman & Co. Ltd. All rights =
> reserved. For reprint rights: Times Syndication Service
>             This site is best viewed with Internet Explorer 6.0 or =
> higher; Firefox 2.0 or higher at a minimum screen resolution of 1024x768 =
>
>
>
>
>       WWII - a war that cost the lives of more than 60 million people - =
> was planned and financed by the world's largest chemical/ pharmaceutical =
> cartel. At that time Germany's I.G. Farben consisted of Bayer, BASF, =
> Hoechst and others.- Dr Mathius Rath
>     =20
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -------
> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.=20
>
> __._,_.___=20
> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic=20
> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | =
> Calendar=20
> MARKETPLACE
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -------
> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods=20
> =20
> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)=20
> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch =
> format to Traditional=20
> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent =
> Activity
> Visit Your Group=20
> Y! Messenger
> Group get-together
>
> Host a free online
>
> conference on IM.
>
> Group Charity
> Hands On Network
>
> Volunteering has
>
> never been so easy
>
> Yahoo! Groups
> Going Green Zone
>
> Find Green groups.
>
> Find Green resources.
> .=20
> __,_._,___
> ------=_NextPart_001_02D2_01C96C0C.6E807710
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3314" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
> size=3D2><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--><FONT=20
> face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT>=20
> <DIV id=3Dygrp-mlmsg style=3D"WIDTH: 655px; POSITION: relative">
> <DIV id=3Dygrp-msg=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 25px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; Z-INDEX: 1; FLOAT: =
> left; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; WIDTH: 470px; PADDING-TOP: =
> 0px"><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
> <DIV id=3Dygrp-text>
> <P>
> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
>   <TBODY>
>   <TR>
>     <TD=20
>       =
> vAlign=3Dtop>http://timesofindia<WBR>.indiatimes.<WBR>com/Health_<WBR>_Sc=
> ience/<WBR>Cancer_vaccine_<WBR>kicks_up_<WBR>controversy/<WBR>articleshow=
> /<WBR>3912139.cms=20
>
>       <TABLE class=3Dmaintable1 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 =
> width=3D"90%"=20
>       align=3Dcenter border=3D0 valign=3D"top">
>         <TBODY>
>         <TR>
>           <TD class=3Dinner2 width=3D"100%" colSpan=3D3>
>             <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D680 =
> border=3D0>
>               <TBODY>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD class=3Dft12pl10 vAlign=3Dtop width=3D200>Printed =
> from<BR><A=20
>                   href=3D"http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com"><IMG=20
>                   =
> src=3D"http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/photo.cms?photoid=3D1799437"=20
>                   border=3D0></A></TD>
>                 <TD class=3Dft12pl5 vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dleft=20
> width=3D422><BR></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD colSpan=3D2 =
> height=3D5><BR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
>         <TR>
>           <TD class=3Dredln style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 2px" =
> colSpan=3D3>&nbsp;</TD></TR>
>         <TR>
>           <TD class=3Dcolumn2 vAlign=3Dtop>
>             <DIV id=3Dnewsbrk>
>             <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D463 =
> border=3D0>
>               <TBODY>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD align=3Dright width=3D106><IMG=20
>                   =
> src=3D"http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/photo.cms?msid=3D3360029"=20
>                   border=3D0></TD>
>                 <TD class=3Dbrnews vAlign=3Dcenter align=3Dleft =
> width=3D346 height=3D21>
>                   <DIV></DIV></TD>
>                 <TD width=3D12><A=20
>                   =
> href=3D"http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-3912139,prtpa=
> ge-1.cms#"><IMG=20
>                   =
> src=3D"http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/photo.cms?msid=3D3360035"=20
>                   align=3DabsMiddle =
> border=3D0></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>
>             <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" =
> border=3D0>
>               <TBODY>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD><BR></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD class=3Dft13wb><BR></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"100%"><SPAN=20
>                   class=3Dheadshow><ARTTITLE>Cancer vaccine kicks up =
> controversy=20
>                   in India</ARTTITLE></SPAN><BR>
>                   <DIV><SPAN class=3Dheadingnextag>30 Dec 2008, 1122 hrs =
>
>                   IST,&nbsp;IANS</SPAN></DIV></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD><BR><BR><BR></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD vAlign=3Dtop align=3Dleft>
>                   <DIV class=3DKonaBody><!-- google_ad_section_start -->
>                   <DIV id=3Dstorydiv>
>                   <DIV class=3DNormal>BANGALORE: An advertising blitz =
> launched by=20
>                   a multinational drug firm to promote its high profile =
> but=20
>                   controversial cancer vaccine has left Indian =
> households=20
>                   confused and health workers worried. <BR><BR>The =
> 15-second=20
>                   commercials seen recently on Indian television urge =
> parents to=20
>                   get their young girls inoculated with the vaccine =
> Gardasil to=20
>                   protect against cervical cancer, the second commonest =
> major=20
>                   cancer in women. <BR><BR>What the ad hides, of course, =
> is that=20
>                   the vaccine is mired in a controversy in the United =
> States=20
>                   over its safety and the ethics of administering it to =
> girls as=20
>                   young as nine. <BR><BR>The vaccine manufactured by =
> Merck &amp;=20
>                   Co blocks two strains of the human papillomavirus (HPV =
> 16 and=20
>                   18) which are known to cause about 70% of cervical =
> cancers.=20
>                   <BR><BR>The US Food and Drugs Administration =
> authorised sale=20
>                   of the vaccine in that country in June 2006. The =
> company=20
>                   launched it in India in October 2008 and followed it =
> with=20
>                   television advertisements that tend to make the =
> parents=20
>                   believe that their daughters risk dying of cervical =
> cancer if=20
>                   not vaccinated. <BR><BR>Advertising prescription drugs =
> on=20
>                   television is unethical enough, but using fear to sell =
> them is=20
>                   worse, according to medical scientists aware of the=20
>                   controversy in the US. <BR><BR>Gardasil is an =
> efficient=20
>                   vaccine but the safety and risk information about it =
> has not=20
>                   been made available to parents to enable them make an =
> informed=20
>                   decision about vaccinating their daughters, says =
> Kumaravel=20
>                   Somasundaram, a cancer expert at the Indian Institute =
> of=20
>                   Science in Bangalore. "We did not debate the issues =
> even=20
>                   within the science community before the vaccine =
> arrived in the=20
>                   market," he said. <BR><BR>Its exorbitant listed price =
> - $120=20
>                   (Rs 5,800) per dose and three shots are required - is =
> the=20
>                   least of the concerns about the vaccines, says Jacob =
> Puliyel,=20
>                   consultant paediatrician at the St. Stephens Hospital =
> in=20
>                   Delhi. "What bothers me is the reported side effect." =
> A Google=20
>                   search with just two key words 'gardasil+safety' lists =
> 263,000=20
>                   reports relating to side effects. <BR><BR>As of August =
> 31, the=20
>                   US Centres of Disease Control (CDC) had received more =
> than=20
>                   10,000 adverse event reports, including 27 deaths =
> following=20
>                   Gardasil vaccination. According to CDC, seizures, =
> blood clots=20
>                   and paralysis accounted for six% of adverse events =
> classified=20
>                   as "serious", while fainting, fever and headaches made =
> up the=20
>                   rest. But the US health officials and Merck have =
> dismissed the=20
>                   adverse events as "unrelated to the vaccine" and have =
> claimed=20
>                   that the vaccine is safe. <BR><BR>Puliyel says the =
> Gardasil=20
>                   vaccination raises an ethical issue as it can only =
> prevent,=20
>                   but not treat HPV infection. Since HPV is sexually=20
>                   transmitted, the vaccine needs to be given before a =
> girl=20
>                   becomes sexually active - ideally at the age of 11. =
> "The=20
>                   underlying assumption here is that adolescent girls in =
> India=20
>                   may all become promiscuous,<WBR>" says Puliyel. =
> <BR><BR>An=20
>                   August 21 editorial in the New England Journal of =
> Medicine=20
>                   noted that Gardasil's "long-term effectiveness is =
> unclear"=20
>                   since no participants have been followed for more than =
> five=20
>                   years while most cervical cancers take 10 years to =
> develop.=20
>                   <BR><BR>"While it has been shown that the HPV vaccines =
> prevent=20
>                   pre-cancerous lesions, we don't know if they will =
> prevent=20
>                   cancer itself," the editorial said. <BR><BR>The =
> journal also=20
>                   raised two other questions: One, most HPV infections =
> clear on=20
>                   their own in 1-2 years through the body's natural =
> immune=20
>                   response. Will the vaccine interfere with this natural =
> process=20
>                   and, if so, in what ways? Two, since only two of the =
> cancer=20
>                   causing strains of HPV are suppressed by Gardasil, =
> will other=20
>                   strains take their place? More than 160 types of HPV =
> are known=20
>                   to exist. <BR><BR>"With so many essential questions =
> still=20
>                   unanswered, there is good reason to be cautious about=20
>                   introducing large-scale vaccination programmes (with=20
>                   Gardasil)," says Charlotte Haug, editor in chief of =
> the=20
>                   Journal of the Norwegian Medical Association. =
> <BR><BR>"There=20
>                   is too little long-term safety and efficacy data, =
> especially=20
>                   in young girls," says Tom Fitton, president of =
> Judicial Watch,=20
>                   a public interest group in Washington. "It looks as if =
> an=20
>                   unproven vaccine with dangerous side effects is being =
> pushed=20
>                   as a miracle drug." <BR><BR>Merck spokesperson Vince =
> Docherty=20
>                   however told IANS that the vaccine was tested in =
> approximately=20
>                   25,000 people in the United States and around the =
> world, "and=20
>                   found to be safe and effective in preventing serious=20
>                   HPV-related diseases". <BR><BR>According to the =
> company, the=20
>                   vaccine launched in India can be given to women from =
> age 10 to=20
>                   26. The office of the Drug Controller General of India =
> did not=20
>                   reply to questions on how the vaccine was allowed to =
> be sold=20
>                   without the mandatory clinical trial on local =
> population. The=20
>                   trial in the 16-23 age group, originally proposed by =
> the=20
>                   Indian Council of Medical Research in early 2008, has =
> not=20
>                   started for reasons not known. <BR><BR>The Merck =
> spokesperson=20
>                   however said that Indian regulators approved the sale =
> of=20
>                   Gardasil in July 2008 on the basis of "clinical =
> efficacy and=20
>                   safety data" generated worldwide and the results of a =
> clinical=20
>                   trial carried out in India in 2007 in 110 healthy =
> girls in the=20
>                   9-15 age group. The company had outsourced the trial =
> to=20
>                   unnamed contract research organisations and the =
> results have=20
>                   not been published. The Merck official said the =
> results are=20
>                   "in the process" of being published. <BR><BR>According =
> to the=20
>                   American Cancer Society, virtually all cervical =
> cancers can be=20
>                   prevented if any pre-cancerous cells detected during =
> routine=20
>                   "Pap" test are treated immediately. The Pap test that =
> costs=20
>                   about Rs 200 can detect changes on a woman's cervix =
> even=20
>                   before cancer develops, when it is most curable. =
> Between 1955=20
>                   and 1992 the number of cervical cancer deaths in the =
> United=20
>                   States dropped by 74% by the use of Pap test alone, =
> without=20
>                   any vaccination. <BR><BR>The American vaccine =
> watchdog,=20
>                   Virginia-based National Vaccine Information Center, =
> has=20
>                   cautioned that Gardasil vaccine could lull people into =
> a false=20
>                   sense of security. It says that since the vaccine =
> protects=20
>                   only against a few strains of HPV responsible for 70% =
> of=20
>                   cervical cancers, "it will be important for women to =
> continue=20
>                   getting screened by regular Pap tests" to guard =
> against the=20
>                   remaining 30% of cervical cancers caused by other =
> dangerous=20
>                   strains of HPV. <BR><BR>Critics say that the Indian =
> health=20
>                   ministry which acted so fast to put the controversial =
> Merck=20
>                   vaccine on chemist shops ahead of the clinical trial =
> (in the=20
>                   16-23 age group) should have instead promoted the =
> inexpensive=20
>                   Pap test across the nation if it was really serious =
> about=20
>                   reducing cervical cancer deaths. </DIV></DIV><!-- =
> google_ad_section_end --></DIV></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD height=3D7><BR></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD align=3Dright><BR></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD height=3D7><BR></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD class=3Dread id=3Dtotalcomment><BR></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD height=3D7><BR></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD class=3Dread><BR></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD height=3D10><BR></TD></TR>
>               <TR>
>                 <TD height=3D7><BR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
>         <TR>
>           <TD class=3Dfooter align=3Dmiddle colSpan=3D3><A=20
>             href=3D"http://info.indiatimes.com/terms/aboutus.html">About =
>
>             Us</A>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<A=20
>             href=3D"http://advertise.indiatimes.com/">Advertise with =
> Us</A> | <A=20
>             href=3D"http://www.timesjobs.com/TIL/Careers/">Careers @=20
>             TIL</A>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<A=20
>             =
> href=3D"http://in.indiatimes.com/policyterms/3441503.cms">Terms of=20
>             Use</A>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<A=20
>             =
> href=3D"http://info.indiatimes.com/terms/privacy.html">Privacy=20
>             Policy</A>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<A=20
>             =
> href=3D"http://info.indiatimes.com/feedback/itfeedback.html">Feedback</A>=
> &nbsp;|&nbsp;<A=20
>             =
> href=3D"http://timesofindia..indiatimes.com/sitemap.cms">Sitemap</A><BR><=
> SPAN=20
>             class=3Dcopyright>Copyright =A9&nbsp;2008&nbsp;Bennett =
> Coleman &amp; Co.=20
>             Ltd. All rights reserved. For reprint rights: <A=20
>             href=3D"http://syndication.indiatimes.com/">Times =
> Syndication=20
>             Service</A><BR>This site is best viewed with Internet =
> Explorer 6.0=20
>             or higher; Firefox 2.0 or higher at a minimum screen =
> resolution of=20
>             1024x768</SPAN></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR>
>       <DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center"><FONT size=3D4><SPAN=20
>       style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms"><SPAN=20
>       style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,127,0)">WWII =96 a war that =
> cost the lives=20
>       of more than 60 million people =96 was planned and financed by the =
> world=92s=20
>       largest chemical/ pharmaceutical cartel. At that time Germany=92s =
> I.G.=20
>       Farben consisted of Bayer, BASF, Hoechst and others.- Dr Mathius=20
>       =
> Rath</SPAN><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><!--6-->=
>
> <HR SIZE=3D1>
> </HR>Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! <A=20
> href=3D"http://in.rd.yahoo..com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yah=
> oo.com/invite/">Invite=20
> them now.</A>=20
> <P></P></DIV><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
> white"=20
> width=3D"1">__._,_.___</SPAN> <!-- Start the section with Message In =
> topic -->
> <DIV id=3Dygrp-actbar><SPAN class=3Dleft><A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/message/4165;_ylc=3D=
> X3oDMTM1NnUxa243BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0N=
> DU5NwRtc2dJZAM0MTY1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIzMDczMjgyNgR0cGNJZA=
> M0MTY1">Messages=20
> in this topic </A>(<SPAN class=3Dbld>1</SPAN>) </SPAN><A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/post;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJx=
> YnE5YjhyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5NwRtc=
> 2dJZAM0MTY1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTIzMDczMjgyNg--?act=3Dreply&a=
> mp;messageNum=3D4165"><SPAN=20
> class=3Dbld>Reply </SPAN>(via web post) </A>| <A class=3Dbld=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/post;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJm=
> ZmRkYzk1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5NwRzZ=
> WMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyMzA3MzI4MjY-">Start=20
> a new topic </A></DIV><!-------     Start Nav Bar  ------><!-- |**|begin =
> egp html banner|**| -->
> <DIV id=3Dygrp-vitnav><A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/messages;_ylc=3DX3oD=
> MTJmNmQwajNuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5N=
> wRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNtc2dzBHN0aW1lAzEyMzA3MzI4MjY-">Messages</A>=20
> | <A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/files;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJ=
> nZmk4OXNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5NwRz=
> ZWMDZnRyBHNsawNmaWxlcwRzdGltZQMxMjMwNzMyODI2">Files</A>=20
> | <A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/photos;_ylc=3DX3oDMT=
> JmYzg1MjdxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5NwR=
> zZWMDZnRyBHNsawNwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEyMzA3MzI4MjY-">Photos</A>=20
> | <A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/links;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJ=
> nb2N2dHNlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5NwRz=
> ZWMDZnRyBHNsawNsaW5rcwRzdGltZQMxMjMwNzMyODI2">Links</A>=20
> | <A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/database;_ylc=3DX3oD=
> MTJkazhqc2tzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5N=
> wRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNkYgRzdGltZQMxMjMwNzMyODI2">Database</A>=20
> | <A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/polls;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJ=
> nZzVvNWMwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5NwRz=
> ZWMDZnRyBHNsawNwb2xscwRzdGltZQMxMjMwNzMyODI2">Polls</A>=20
> | <A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/members;_ylc=3DX3oDM=
> TJmZHIybzdwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5Nw=
> RzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMzA3MzI4MjY-">Members</A>=20
> | <A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/calendar;_ylc=3DX3oD=
> MTJlaW01M2ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5N=
> wRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNjYWwEc3RpbWUDMTIzMDczMjgyNg--">Calendar</A>=20
> </DIV><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
> <DIV id=3Dygrp-mkp>
> <DIV id=3Dhd>MARKETPLACE</DIV>
> <DIV id=3Dads>
> <DIV class=3Dad>
> <HR noShade SIZE=3D1>
> <A=20
> href=3D"http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D13rlm7f8f/M=3D493064.12016295.13271=
> 503.10835568/D=3Dgroups/S=3D1705444597:MKP1/Y=3DYAHOO/EXP=3D1230740026/L=3D=
> /B=3D.9mWZULaX.g-/J=3D1230732826489997/A=3D5530388/R=3D0/SIG=3D11nuutlas/=
> *http://explore.yahoo.com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/">From=20
> kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods=20
> </A></DIV></DIV></DIV><!-- yahoo logo --><!-- |**|begin egp html =
> banner|**| -->
> <DIV id=3Dygrp-ft><A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJlcTRraG9kBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0B=
> GdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbW=
> UDMTIzMDczMjgyNg--"><IMG=20
> height=3D15 alt=3D"Yahoo! Groups"=20
> src=3D"http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" =
> width=3D106=20
> border=3D0></A> <BR><A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now/join;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJn=
> OWVsc2JqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5NwRzZ=
> WMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMjMwNzMyODI2">Change=20
> settings via the Web</A> (Yahoo! ID required) <BR>Change settings via =
> email: <A=20
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask] =
> Delivery: Digest">Switch=20
> delivery to Daily Digest</A> | <A=20
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]
> e Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch=20
> format to Traditional</A> <BR><A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJlZmNpa=
> nIzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5NwRzZWMDZn=
> RyBHNsawNocGYEc3RpbWUDMTIzMDczMjgyNg--">Visit=20
> Your Group </A>| <A href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! =
> Groups Terms=20
> of Use </A>| <A=20
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Uns=
> ubscribe=20
> </A></DIV><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --></DIV><!-- ygrp-msg =
> --><!-- Sponsor --><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
> <DIV id=3Dygrp-sponsor=20
> style=3D"CLEAR: none; BACKGROUND: white; FLOAT: right; MARGIN: 0px 0px =
> 25px; WIDTH: 160px"><!-- Network content --><!-- Start Recommendations =
> -->
> <DIV id=3Dygrp-reco></DIV><!-- End Recommendations --><!-- Start =
> vitality -->
> <DIV id=3Dygrp-vital>
> <DIV id=3Dvithd>Recent Activity</DIV>
> <UL=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; =
> MARGIN: 2px 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: none"></UL><A=20
> href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/South_Asia_Now;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJmcjNoc=
> jJzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMDM1MzkzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU5NwRzZWMDdn=
> RsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMzA3MzI4MjY-">Visit=20
> Your Group </A></DIV><!-- Network content -->
> <DIV id=3Dnc>
> <DIV class=3Dad>
> <DIV id=3Dhd1>Y! Messenger</DIV>
> <P><A=20
> href=3D"http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D13osusjrb/M=3D493064.12016274.12445=
> 679.8674578/D=3Dgroups/S=3D1705444597:NC/Y=3DYAHOO/EXP=3D1230740026/L=3D/=
> B=3D_NmWZULaX.g-/J=3D1230732826489997/A=3D3848584/R=3D0/SIG=3D12ceqob45/*=
> http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D42403/*http://messenger.yahoo.com/feat_conf.=
> php">Group=20
> get-together</A></P>
> <P>Host a free online</P>
> <P>conference on IM.</P></DIV>
> <DIV class=3Dad>
> <DIV id=3Dhd1>Group Charity</DIV>
> <P><A=20
> href=3D"http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D13o9n2ve6/M=3D493064.12016306.12445=
> 698.8674578/D=3Dgroups/S=3D1705444597:NC/Y=3DYAHOO/EXP=3D1230740026/L=3D/=
> B=3D_dmWZULaX.g-/J=3D1230732826489997/A=3D5579904/R=3D0/SIG=3D110vban8o/*=
> http://www.handsonnetwork.org/">Hands=20
> On Network</A></P>
> <P>Volunteering has</P>
> <P>never been so easy</P></DIV>
> <DIV class=3Dad>
> <DIV id=3Dhd1>Yahoo! Groups</DIV>
> <P><A=20
> href=3D"http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=3D13ooqi496/M=3D493064.12016272.13280=
> 354.8674578/D=3Dgroups/S=3D1705444597:NC/Y=3DYAHOO/EXP=3D1230740026/L=3D/=
> B=3D_tmWZULaX.g-/J=3D1230732826489997/A=3D5541752/R=3D0/SIG=3D11ckn2mo6/*=
> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/green/">Going=20
> Green Zone</A></P>
> <P>Find Green groups.</P>
> <P>Find Green resources.</P></DIV></DIV></DIV><!-- |**|end egp html =
> banner|**| -->
> <DIV style=3D"CLEAR: both; FONT-SIZE: 1px; COLOR: =
> #fff">.</DIV></DIV><IMG height=3D1=20
> src=3D"http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=3D97359714/grpId=3D13035393/grpspId=3D=
> 1705444597/msgId=3D4165/stime=3D1230732826/nc1=3D3848584/nc2=3D5579904/nc=
> 3=3D5541752"=20
> width=3D1> <BR><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: white">__,_._,___</SPAN> =
> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
> <STYLE type=3Dtext/css>
> <!--
> #ygrp-mkp{
>   border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
>   font-family: Arial;
>   margin: 14px 0px;
>   padding: 0px 14px;
> }
> #ygrp-mkp hr{
>   border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
> }
> #ygrp-mkp #hd{
>   color: #628c2a;
>   font-size: 85%;
>   font-weight: bold;
>   line-height: 122%;
>   margin: 10px 0px;
> }
> #ygrp-mkp #ads{
>   margin-bottom: 10px;
> }
> #ygrp-mkp .ad{
>   padding: 0 0;
> }
> #ygrp-mkp .ad a{
>   color: #0000ff;
>   text-decoration: none;
> }
> -->
> </STYLE>
>
> <STYLE type=3Dtext/css>
> <!--
> #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
>   font-family: Arial;
> }
> #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
>   margin: 10px 0px;
>   font-weight: bold;
>   font-size: 78%;
>   line-height: 122%;
> }
> #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
>   margin-bottom: 10px;
>   padding: 0 0;
> }
> -->
> </STYLE>
>
> <STYLE type=3Dtext/css>
> 	<!--
> 	#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: =
> arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;}
> 	#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
> 	#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% =
> arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
> 	#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
> 	#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
> 	#ygrp-text{
> 	    font-family: Georgia;=09
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-text p{
> 	    margin: 0 0 1em 0;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-tpmsgs{
> 	    font-family: Arial;=09
> 	    clear: both;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-vitnav{
> 		padding-top: 10px;
> 		font-family: Verdana;
> 		font-size: 77%;
> 		margin: 0;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-vitnav a{
> 		padding: 0 1px;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-actbar{
> 		clear: both;
> 		margin: 25px 0;
> 		white-space:nowrap;
> 		color: #666;
> 		text-align: right;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-actbar .left{
> 		float: left;
> 		white-space:nowrap;
> 	}
> 	.bld{font-weight:bold;}
> 	#ygrp-grft{
> 		font-family: Verdana;
> 		font-size: 77%;
> 		padding: 15px 0;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-ft{
> 	  font-family: verdana;
> 	  font-size: 77%;
> 	  border-top: 1px solid #666;=20
> 	  padding: 5px 0;=20
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
> 	  padding-bottom: 10px;
> 	}
>
> 	#ygrp-reco {
> 	margin-bottom: 20px;
> 	padding: 0px;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
> 		font-weight: bold;
> 		color: #ff7900;
> 	}
>
> 	#reco-grpname{
>         font-weight: bold;
>         margin-top: 10px;
>   	}
> 	#reco-category{
>         	font-size: 77%;
> 	}
> 	#reco-desc{
>         	font-size: 77%;
> 	}
>
> 	#ygrp-vital{
> 		background-color: #e0ecee;
> 		margin-bottom: 20px;
> 		padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-vital #vithd{
> 		font-size: 77%;
> 		font-family: Verdana;
> 		font-weight: bold;
> 		color: #333;
> 		text-transform: uppercase;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-vital ul{
> 		padding: 0;
> 		margin: 2px 0;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-vital ul li{
> 	  list-style-type: none;
> 	  clear: both;
> 	  border: 1px solid #e0ecee; =20
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
> 	  font-weight: bold;
> 	  color: #ff7900;
> 	  float: right;
> 	  width: 2em;
> 	  text-align:right;
> 	  padding-right: .5em;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
> 	  font-weight: bold;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-vital a{
> 		text-decoration: none;
> 	}
>
> 	#ygrp-vital a:hover{
> 	  text-decoration: underline;
> 	}
>
> 	#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
> 		color: #999;
> 		font-size: 77%;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
> 		padding: 6px 13px;
> 		background-color: #e0ecee;
> 		margin-bottom: 20px;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
> 		padding: 0 0 0 8px;
> 		margin: 0;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
> 		list-style-type: square;
> 		padding: 6px 0;
> 		font-size: 77%;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
> 		text-decoration: none;
> 		font-size: 130%;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-sponsor #nc{
> 	  background-color: #eee;
> 	  margin-bottom: 20px;
> 	  padding: 0 8px;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
> 		padding: 8px 0;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
> 		font-family: Arial;
> 		font-weight: bold;
> 		color: #628c2a;
> 		font-size: 100%;
> 		line-height: 122%;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
> 		text-decoration: none;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
> 		text-decoration: underline;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
> 		margin: 0;
> 	}
> 	o{font-size: 0; }
> 	.MsoNormal{
> 	   margin: 0 0 0 0;
> 	}
> 	#ygrp-text tt{
> 	  font-size: 120%;
> 	}
> 	blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
> 	.replbq{margin:4}
> 	-->
> 	</STYLE>
> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--><!--End group email =
> --></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_001_02D2_01C96C0C.6E807710--
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_02D1_01C96C0C.6E807710
> Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
> 	name="photo.cms?photoid=1799437"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Location:   
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/photo.cms?photoid=1799437
>
> R0lGODlh+AAVALMAAO7u7t3d3URERBERESIiIqqqqjMzM8zMzHd3d1VVVYiIiLu7u2ZmZpmZmQAA
> AP///yH5BAAAAAAALAAAAAD4ABUAAAT/8MlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmiqrmzrvo+yzHRdNA9Q09Kx
> LwHdb7eRDWe33PARqB0wwtkhelxcFgiEAlEAPD0FBUOsKFiowwB0iAZQ0NOj+oKeYRTuDMHhGPMd
> DQJ8AjkKe3wJZg8HDH8DCkEKA38zDQyTDnkYh358gYOFmA6JTA2HmRcKfwhTkpQLlpiaOYJWOQkO
> A18aCwQDtg8LAwTAoa8KuA4GUK6IXQ0Gfwxv0HwMraJIlwk4b82jihUHDgoZAcpqC38Swg4TBX+z
> D9EOCBTwfG+N3RfnBunrgk16F+/eH34UDi0jmG8CgH0UBE2L6KDYhQZ8dvXwVAGfuwkB/6LNueBR
> EwB6gCoAGDBRgkcKByYJkFfyQkwHBDJAy6Ou4aJf7AJSJEeh50cKDBLoNMBTaExbRissoLewKD1C
> E6JWSJqVTzkK5yx2tHahkYNwwYRKOPn1ilqBfHRVSFBMa1dls+xWwMhHrAQGI/Uq+KpXgiCid48+
> 6MYUA+DEFAYH9cmOr4OREgaDgjyBcR5VOOWNybCSD9q7AzTZDaDmQFULhWFhajwBT9G387zepgyW
> 053dih9MLPzgcNu0Pg8QRhgZ+NbJwWfQs+dQswOs0Ccor5z5zz+YxyuADk7hT1u7BWwhwOy86AKP
> LWNIxT1eNe7M4/iwX9seZPYKxvWXQP9b+/HHmX/IRQcLHzl1FgBo2CU4wYAInvMHOAhecFiDFxyC
> nV10rSXPgexYgcBBtc3HW4L8ECeBPYeE59aK/w11XFQB4CLjBi5K6B4Af4RjD4TO5YjYXhcyyJwF
> mEQIoFBaqeKXigpKQI9c8vXnkDQkdvYEaBxm0KNRg5VpiG6JIYPmB2O+ZYdZEwWAA5FpJrPjAwWI
> 4p1GFfzh5FBHkXnIlFoGY0tpeGXZpQR+LvoAdRaexeN9PtrYHkZ3iklpbFbUZBud/2FK2icXhtnn
> ZhpCuc5DFXHAaWLThOdiozWCxM9hSvGyKW4BHqiFdh20yZsdDxyCA3WgVvprD5nNEoD/WaZhcFUG
> h1VlFzGuulnMeA3Iet8fuVY6ARc0nKifrjSKa9ialW73V7C7DqseHwYU8EWydrkrXGanLWYeBuaS
> NwGXNcqQrbxP5hJurWv9y7BwO2CSqbqL9lprNwAsrGm6rzIBbm2oiotxrmJcYCcG+V3WDyUHEotu
> lW+cQiVsfwT2VgOnmWXqzDOSZzHFj1I3KcdvFRCOxfjel0V3+4HGJ1LsdoZIoQcHV4YFKfNMgblC
> q/vaRtFiIKzP7BKHUb89i/3W0hLwNVLSK57dncbCXafBSTh1mKijL1ewrHjDFuTQJLTVqsoF9NAt
> 9bkWWMaeb4urvJa5BTZe80WXrzVMrB4rLawzBY47RHl3R/5UOBQSbXWdPKF/0HoOm5scnGX84D0T
> kozzJdZ4Ty9wyR8EPCbBs6IQQF014ALxO4ODJZM3j8vjJDwT0Rv/6CHWC6fIAocpSTzwzQNf22AG
> CJCeIbZ1EIgADcAigAHMfc/gehzIj5M9CGBCgIwngRT9AFpggAAYYBH7ESAB3WOJ/0ShQBg4EAUj
> WoEUSMCDB4KgchbMoAY3yMEOetAEEQAAOw==
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_02D1_01C96C0C.6E807710
> Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
> 	name="photo.cms?msid=3360029"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Location: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/photo.cms?msid=3360029
>
> R0lGODlhagApANUAAP///74AALwBAakCAqsCAsAAAKcCAsEAAMIAALcBAeCNjfHPz70AAKoCAqgC
> AroBAb8AALkBAbsBAawCAsZBQbgBAaYCAqYDA6UDA60CAq8CAq4CArYBAbACArIBAbQBAcpRUbgR
> Eey/v78yMrEBAsMxMbwhIdmAgPXf3/rv760WFuvAwOu/wNeAgM5hYdFhYeawsOGgoN6Pj9Rxcd2P
> kOivr+evr+Kfn8QPD+evsMIDA6cFBcgbG9yQkNVOTtWIiCH5BAAAAAAALAAAAABqACkAQAb/QABA
> 5OMhjsikcslsOp/QqPQZqFqv2Kx2y+16v+BwIEEuk4XClMzMbrNFAIpZ6K6XKcIaGS63+/9sHYKD
> gkItLSgAPR1CgiMACyApACEwAC6WKx0rcTGXjACbcXiaC5emLYSkHSZoFI+RkyEdMZMjHYkpgpYu
> IAAwhCgxuMOCDcfIycrLzM3Oz9DR0tMNQisgKhja29zd3t/g4eLj5OXiOAXp6uvs7e7v8PHy8/T1
> Evf4+fr7/P3+/wADChwo4YPBgwaFiDAlIsQHIQte+LIRIlGIFyIo+BLxAQ4IFCkcCukIYMbGD5NM
> 3ABwAiEeESsp8JlYkVLMEkJukAzhEeML/4QodKKQcTCD0aNIkypdyrSp0hAtVlxzSrWqVaQqDGjd
> yrWr169gw4odS7asWRE6Dqhdy7at27dw48qdS7duXQh48+rdy7ev37+AAwseTBiCgMOIEytezLix
> 48eQI0ueLCCC5cuYM2vezLmz58+gQ4uOwKG06dJCSstgaTpEidIlKJg4TYFCiNJ8TuvmUOI1bN+6
> 8dRgnZu37N3IOYSonXy3h+fQnwt57gLADQ/TPZwAgEKE9xEbV4rwACcRBekAyI8agj399hPRX3oA
> aSPO9u7fW9EQgWIGAF/weeDCJAuMEN8leLjwnAYMNujggxBGKOGEELrQggktANAChRx26P9hgwSE
> KOKIJJZo4okopqjiiiy2SMAAMMYo44w01mjjjTjmqOOOPA6wwg4WBCnkkEQWaeSRSCap5JJMMgmA
> AlNEKeWUVFapBAV2Zanlllx26VY9YIYp5phkuiPGmWimqeaaATDg5ptwxinnnHTWaeedeOapJwOU
> 9ennn4AGKsADhBZq6KGIJqrooow26uijkD5QwaSUVmrppZhmamltmnbq6aegZlqHECfIMMkLgLjB
> hxknnJAqG3iklMCqr9baRnKpcbDSCxwMsYAIHMBBKgcmpIBCIiAEu14NvQKgrCmsbQcJa6YJZ6yy
> FCg7bCKlJcLrrhQYm0IKwPligrmmRRf/nULlldBeCNpZR4Ep55kwg3jqeYSeerWxN917B2ZkHR/b
> 3TBvHC+U5J8NKGC3gAerpRBgdCeEZCq8HpCg8cYaC6GxLyyQ4DEJ75FAAwsjsAAACXiErHJ1IYu8
> ssr9huxxyRu3TIJ/NJd88ggkoKAyDY+sBPQIsq2UA8fbhUBDSBoTQggaQsQwSyOCtDAJCiB0MMK4
> GS4gimwAhNQIJ/1qIgkKlqQyyCodWBJHB1pz13UH1aEgiCfFjAAtDLMIYq65g2xg+OGIJ6744ow3
> rrgnMJgyguOUV2754RNkrvnmnHfu+eeghy766KSXPoGLqKeu+uqsv9jj67DHLvvsDtRuL/vtuOeu
> ++689+7778AH7wAFZhVv/PHIJ+8VAD9c4Pzz0Ecv/fTUV2/99dhnn30QADs=
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_02D1_01C96C0C.6E807710
> Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
> 	name="photo.cms?msid=3360035"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Location: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/photo.cms?msid=3360035
>
> R0lGODlhDAApANUAALcBAbkBAbACAqsCAqkCAqcCArUBAbgBAbQBAf///8hQUK0CAqwCAq4CAq8C
> ArYBAbEBAqoCArMBAagCArIBAbcQELwAAL4AAKYDA6YCAsAAAO7Pz+vCwt2fn7kAAKUDA7oBAcIw
> MLoAALMAAK8AALYAAK4QELEAAKsAAMdBQbcAAOCfn7sAALgAAPrv77sBAf7+/sADA9WIiNROTqsO
> Du+/v6cFBcYbG7UAAOGGhq0bG6gAAM8/P8IPD71BQbIAACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAAAMACkAQAb9QI1w
> qLnNarCE6rRKbDrOSklkAVivWKtgy+1uI+CwGPwpmz86BSeREIVcGxOqqfBYeqBAFnAA+RGAgYKA
> C4WGh4UFiouMBTQXFiIekx5UFzEcKj8oUE4mJCUsFwcGIRUNDQ4pBgABLwGwsbKwD7W2t7UUuru8
> ug6/wMG/A8TFxsQEycrLyRnOz9A2HEIXkBbVFxo5MJGmI98pdhc8LSNNT1EtoiUnnGxxJDhUKm9x
> O3QldgGkBoEGBwFAvJo1C8SBgwgTHtyzx4DDhxAdSphIseJECBgzasTopaMAVCBDgmRAsqRJksdS
> DmDGksCElzBjvmxE0weGmzhzykgQBAA7
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_02D1_01C96C0C.6E807710
> Content-Type: image/gif;
> 	name="ma_grp_160.gif"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Location:   
> http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif
>
> R0lGODlhagAPAPcAAP9cfsPDw7Ozs6Kion19fXR0dPoAHv2El5OTk+Xl5fw0Vb+rpkxMTP7a4fp7
> kslkcJubm+r//7oUK9QNKcnBvVNTU+3t7enp6WJiYv7c3uUAG9FufNLp4lxcXP8AI/3T2evc3/5z
> i97e3uJJZP7M1tlVZ7mZlv8CMv/+/v/g5//Gzv7p7cYJJtne2fMAHv/i57wEF/+5xP9FY/+8u4GB
> gfHy8r29vdsAHP1hevr9/eHx7dzLyLM9R+Dg39dGW/71+Kt8evoWPd4BI9bW1v6ktPj4+Nzk38QA
> G/8AKfT09IqKiqqqqvyttP4cScYRK/4rU25tbY2NjdMAGmpqatTa1f7G0sE2RvL6+P/6+v/T08O6
> tvX9+/r6+v+8ye0AIdHR0c3Nzcu1sqpXWqYWJP9the08Wq6urvz8/P/P2P9Jbe739sGopf4cRaQ7
> QbOEg+708eGlp51zbLONi/2pu8KEhtG8u51bXfUBKP8TQeTs6v4ALPz///Lq6v+3yv8kUOv284aG
> hv+0tbUeL9ooQv/19rqhn+YLMtp0htUAE//8/P8+Yv8gTf+xvdQbNqyYk/3x8EdHR+UAJff//50n
> LOvz8KxLUf9SdP9GZ/f39+z59+Hr58nJyf///diwstu+wePi4c7JxaFxbcYcM/eWqP+XqewFKvoF
> MPdngujw7fn5+eGxu++ruP+hov/l6Ofn5vyUn/P39tnZ2dqDjd/b2bWQi/79/e1VauFdc/KjstvR
> z/+huKiVjr6Agf+twcmOkcWQmPJGafRLZ9QnP/L8+/H///X7+9rW0+6Omt8xTPELMfINO6eoqP8G
> Ov8HNf+LobFkaP/t78DAwL4OJbdfZb+LjKGLg/Pe4NPU1NfT0f+2wrqwqv8PO71TXvItUuRAXP8q
> WMeyrt8AFu7FzPeRouwoS/CfqNbCwOEUOdrJxfj8+v/7/qAqMMfIyLUsPfjy8/yYpPoAKOrO0b2l
> oucIJ4eHh+QJKVdXV8R+g7lPWv9ihv9ti//f5MpOZMBGUtgFJ////yH5BAAAAAAALAAAAABqAA8A
> AAj/APeleEHwRYoUWP4pXMiwocOHECMytOTn0qo9EjNqlNgtkp4TIEshurfxYSsVaNCQSKGxFhpn
> +SwBcEYChUJFSFxU2lKyZ0k+nQ4F0aOHn7Y6e0IokMFUkQI4DFUwihEjW4x/jObd0SOlX7p/hD70
> 6fMhocIGaU54kcLCnwYklqD9wylEjsNUqTRyKeJTYa28UfEgURZPoTh89ZDckNDGzZlE6v6Nk2LA
> gxQYvv6hAnYjDpVHDprc0aDhzpOrKxZ5gGFHCzZj5oB5GEEMpxNQDJNAwIBByYV/EKBMgWLmzL9U
> y6ZgiPL7ExRX/yxAAYOJgHAl0K8VwECjB8M5epCQ/+Oj8AA8GJ5PsWETxAeXPbOaeKnGgZJCHIgW
> /LtkAIYYE2v8ggwSuLzjgRBADMNQA3hoUEcaHrSTB0M0VLCEGQQk8E8BUwiAAAPR/PPhAAJgAMUZ
> IkDi3QWQ2JCEPUqYgQEBRWAACDs0fNHQAUh4UII7ALgwhiNX/FOFF/D4Y0IO/6Dgxx3eOEAGGSE8
> cYM2pHjAwi5FKmTNNoPYgoQoVDT0wzcu0JGGC2JIstAQDATwTw0X1LBhFP8k0cESFlQggEIigJgA
> AyuCqKecA3RgAQYFbGKnQ5YgYYp8k2iB0T/6OOHNHZ0o5OQdgoQaqiGRmBBChDowtEIT/pRwgiG5
> NP+EBjM30HJJOHYtZEMFCUhXAQ3/ENABDdslcE0FOv7DRQfLDFpoAHoWoEQFCPwTSwEVdLCJQxng
> cQI861Cw0AfNDOIAEj646aQGjhCTSSYR4KCBCa94cA4IDBGhhzQPGhDMPgphUcUTLkzSwiiCiLtQ
> oMv8gwk9BQQLBQSQmBGdPdX+EwAkX1wQ5z9wDhFtFAJg8o8rXFhQAAEOcaKAHl4AwRAOUvDATRCR
> 7NDFAXjAMwIRP+xDhCIulPBBGQY8oUsfvejTjBR2qPHILV6Y4scToknRBgU/zKEKLFgQstAADBAw
> bbVT0CMir/8IwMDKDOAZ7K8dFHCGBQzYsFANU0z/gYA9AzykCMxuKKRCCHpMsMMeTBiwwTFHOOEE
> CzDQkUEjLDhxxDQ1yNLIDULcIIUgoYigUA6ePGCFFTw8U8iEaHggjCszBCJXkwEoEUU0XLQdogUQ
> gKHQFwgowbtCNSwByAAW5DmA6Qv1MAA9ZvC1EDQpVNHECXc8gMY+5UgjiAS8NADACck4gI4RLbT/
> yT+UtN/CJza9sUMY4FBgRDEN7bHFH2pgUsAOUQk4sIIJM+iLAjNChBuATggQ1IATepAJTWgCFQ2w
> QjvaIQhqLLAnexhGBgIRiCx88IQNqUUY5LGAFq5hDYWYRUP+94c/1MAmKNxIKzKQwx768IdADKIQ
> BodIRI0EBAA7
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_02D1_01C96C0C.6E807710
> Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
> 	name="nc3=5541752"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> Content-Location:   
> http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13035393/grpspId=1705444597/msgId=4165/stime=1230732826/nc1=3848584/nc2=5579904/nc3=5541752
>
> R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAP///wAAACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_02D1_01C96C0C.6E807710--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 18:36:32 +0100
> From:    Michael Balter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>
> ------=_Part_188096_9733306.1230831392450
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> Strange, because numerous polls over the past several years have indicated
> that a significant percentage of Palestinians favor a two-state solution. I
> think we have all seen them, here is just one:
>
> http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/15253
>
> Anyone who thinks that a one-state solution is possible anytime in the
> realistic future has got their head entirely up their ass, for the obvious
> reason that to put it in effect would require an entirely different balance
> of power in the region than exists now. When the Arab nations are willing to
> declare war on Israel again, let me know--otherwise "left" poseur blowhards
> like Louis Godena will just be farting in the wind.
>
> MB
>
> On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Louis R Godena
> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>>  Clearly, the professor's lofty "let them eat cake" ideals of
>> self-abnegation personal initiative should be applied ONLY to impoverished
>> women and children in the crushed enclaves of our inner cities, and NOT to
>> the people of Gaza or the West Bank or to Occupied Palestine in general.
>>
>> The "two-state solution," which he implicitly or explicitly endorses
>> exists only among those (like Sharon and Bush) who hope, in their heart of
>> hearts, that the Palestinians can be "ghettoized" into non-existence.  It
>> has about as much credibility now as the old Republican canard about "using
>> the maket to reform Social Security" has in 2009.   As the European Right
>> once longed for a "Judenfrei" Europe (a wish devoutly held by quite a number
>> of non or even "anti" Nazis in England and throughout Western Europe), the
>> modern "liberal" zionist now pines for a disinherited Palestinian "nation",
>> whose "nobility" will be the only compensation paid to that long-suffering
>> people.
>>
>> One cannot carry messages for the rich against Castro and Chavez (whose
>> sins are dwarfed by the current leaderships in Tel Aviv and Washington), and
>> in the same breath offer nothing in this forum against far worse crimes
>> closer to home.
>>
>> *That *is the issue.
>>
>> Louis Godena
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Michael Balter <[log in to unmask]>
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:12 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>>
>> I've allowed Louis Godena to misrepresent my position in the past (he
>> called me a "racist hypocrite" on one occasion, which drew no protest from
>> our moderator), but I am not going to continue to do so. As anyone who reads
>> my blog knows, I am strongly anti-Zionist and I do not support a two-state
>> solution as the eventual resolution; I am strongly in favor of a one-state
>> solution, although two states may well end up being the only possible
>> provisional route to that ultimate outcome. If we could go straight to one
>> state, I would be entirely in favor of it, but it may not be realistic.
>>
>> MB
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Louis R Godena <[log in to unmask]
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>  >...each individual must act--and act in a relevant, useful, effective
>>> way--to change [conditions]. Victims, no; victors, yes!
>>>
>>> I agree.  It is far too late for the "liberal" zionists and "human rights"
>>> hypocrites like the professor here to "save" the genocidal entity by some
>>> apartheid South Africa-style "two state" solution.  Millions of displaced
>>> Palestinians cry out for the right to return to their homeland.  The racist
>>> settler state will be replaced with a democratic, secular Palestine with
>>> equal rights for ALL.
>>>
>>> And all the world will rejoice.
>>>
>>> Louis Godena
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ******************************************
>> Michael Balter
>> Contributing Correspondent, Science
>> Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
>> Boston University
>>
>> Email:           [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Website:       michaelbalter.com
>> Balter's Blog: michael-balter.blogspot.com
>> ******************************************
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ******************************************
> Michael Balter
> Contributing Correspondent, Science
> Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
> Boston University
>
> Email:           [log in to unmask]
>
> Website:       michaelbalter.com
> Balter's Blog: michael-balter.blogspot.com
> ******************************************
>
> ------=_Part_188096_9733306.1230831392450
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> Strange, because numerous polls over the past several years have   
> indicated that a significant percentage of Palestinians favor a   
> two-state solution. I think we have all seen them, here is just   
> one:<br><br><a   
> href="http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/15253">http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/15253</a><br>
> <br>Anyone who thinks that a one-state solution is possible anytime   
> in the realistic future has got their head entirely up their ass,   
> for the obvious reason that to put it in effect would require an   
> entirely different balance of power in the region than exists now.   
> When the Arab nations are willing to declare war on Israel again,   
> let me know--otherwise &quot;left&quot; poseur blowhards like Louis   
> Godena will just be farting in the wind.<br>
> <br>MB<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 6:26   
> PM, Louis R Godena <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a   
> href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left:   
> 1ex;">
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <div bgcolor="#ffffff">
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Clearly, the professor&#39;s lofty   
> &quot;let them eat cake&quot;
> ideals of self-abnegation personal initiative&nbsp;should be   
> applied&nbsp;ONLY
> to impoverished women and children in the crushed enclaves of our   
> inner cities,
> and NOT to the people of Gaza or the West Bank or to&nbsp;Occupied Palestine
> in&nbsp;general.&nbsp; </font></div>
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial">The &quot;two-state solution,&quot;  
>  which he implicitly or
> explicitly endorses exists&nbsp;only among those (like Sharon and Bush) who
> hope, in their heart of hearts, that the Palestinians can be   
> &quot;ghettoized&quot; into
> non-existence.&nbsp; It has about as much credibility now as the old  
>  Republican
> canard about &quot;using the maket to reform Social Security&quot; has in
> 2009.&nbsp;&nbsp; As the European Right once longed for a   
> &quot;Judenfrei&quot; Europe (a
> wish devoutly held by quite a number of non or even &quot;anti&quot;  
>  Nazis in England and
> throughout Western Europe), the modern &quot;liberal&quot; zionist   
> now pines for a
> disinherited Palestinian &quot;nation&quot;, whose   
> &quot;nobility&quot; will be the only
> compensation paid to that long-suffering people.</font></div>
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial">One cannot carry messages for the   
> rich against
> Castro and Chavez (whose sins are dwarfed by the current leaderships  
>  in Tel Aviv
> and Washington), and in the same breath offer nothing in this forum   
> against far
> worse crimes closer to home.</font></div>
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial"><i>That </i>is the issue.</font></div>
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div><font color="#888888">
> <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Louis   
> Godena</font></div></font><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0);   
> padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;   
> margin-right: 0px;">
>   <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant:   
> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;   
> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original   
> Message ----- </div>
>   <div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%   
> 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin:   
> -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;   
> font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;   
> font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;   
> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
> <b>From:</b>
>   <a title="[log in to unmask]"   
> href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">Michael   
> Balter</a> </div>
>   <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant:   
> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;   
> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a   
> title="[log in to unmask]"   
> href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"   
> target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>
>   </div>
>   <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant:   
> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;   
> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>   
> Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:12
>   AM</div>
>   <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant:   
> normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;   
> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re:   
> &quot;Why Self-Discipline Is
>   Overrated&quot;by Alfie Kohn</div>
>   <div><br></div>I&#39;ve allowed Louis Godena to misrepresent my   
> position in the
>   past (he called me a &quot;racist hypocrite&quot; on one occasion,  
>  which drew no protest
>   from our moderator), but I am not going to continue to do so. As anyone who
>   reads my blog knows, I am strongly anti-Zionist and I do not support a
>   two-state solution as the eventual resolution; I am strongly in favor of a
>   one-state solution, although two states may well end up being the only
>   possible provisional route to that ultimate outcome. If we could   
> go straight
>   to one state, I would be entirely in favor of it, but it may not be
>   realistic.<br><br>MB<br><br><br><br>
>   <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Louis R   
> Godena <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a   
> href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"   
> target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</span>
>   wrote:<br>
>   <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid   
> rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
>     <div bgcolor="#ffffff">
>     <div>&gt;...each individual must act--and act in a relevant, useful,
>     effective way--to change [conditions]. Victims, no; victors,
>     yes!<br><br><font size="2" face="Arial">I agree.&nbsp; It is far  
>  too late for
>     the &quot;liberal&quot; zionists and &quot;human rights&quot;   
> hypocrites like the professor here
>     to &quot;save&quot; the genocidal entity by some apartheid South  
>  Africa-style &quot;two
>     state&quot; solution.&nbsp; Millions of displaced Palestinians   
> cry out for the
>     right to return to their homeland.&nbsp; The racist settler state will be
>     replaced with a democratic, secular Palestine with equal rights for
>     ALL.</font></div>
>     <div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
>     <div><font size="2" face="Arial">And all the world will   
> rejoice.</font></div>
>     <div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div><font   
> color="#888888">
>     <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Louis
>   Godena</font></div></font></div></blockquote></div><br><br   
> clear="all"><br>--
>   <br>******************************************<br>Michael
>   Balter<br>Contributing Correspondent, Science<br>Adjunct Professor of
>   Journalism,<br>Boston University<br><br>Email: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
>   &nbsp; <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]"   
> target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a><br><br>Website:
>   &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href="http://michaelbalter.com"   
> target="_blank">michaelbalter.com</a><br>Balter&#39;s Blog: <a   
> href="http://michael-balter.blogspot.com"   
> target="_blank">michael-balter.blogspot.com</a><br>******************************************
>   <br></blockquote></div></div></div>
> </blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>--   
> <br>******************************************<br>Michael   
> Balter<br>Contributing Correspondent, Science<br>Adjunct Professor   
> of Journalism,<br>Boston University<br><br>Email: &nbsp; &nbsp;   
> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a   
> href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br>
> <br>Website: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a   
> href="http://michaelbalter.com">michaelbalter.com</a><br>Balter&#39;s Blog:   
> <a   
> href="http://michael-balter.blogspot.com">michael-balter.blogspot.com</a><br>******************************************   
> <br>
>
>
> ------=_Part_188096_9733306.1230831392450--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:23:00 -0500
> From:    Louis R Godena <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0306_01C96C14.11412EC0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Well, the pattern of opposition to zionism is shifting radically in the =
> m.e., away from the syphilitic, ineffectual and corrupt Arab regimes to =
> non-state actors like Hamas and Hesbollah and Democratic Front.  A =
> general return of Palestinian refugees and their descendents to their =
> rightful homes would put paid to the racist entity overnight.  This is =
> the professor's real fear, and all of his high-toned scatological abuse =
> cannot disguise it.  He is literally scared "shitless" by the thought:-)
>
> Louis G
>   ----- Original Message -----=20
>   From: Michael Balter=20
>   To: [log in to unmask]
>   Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:36 PM
>   Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>
>
>   Strange, because numerous polls over the past several years have =
> indicated that a significant percentage of Palestinians favor a =
> two-state solution. I think we have all seen them, here is just one:
>
>   http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/15253
>
>   Anyone who thinks that a one-state solution is possible anytime in the =
> realistic future has got their head entirely up their ass, for the =
> obvious reason that to put it in effect would require an entirely =
> different balance of power in the region than exists now. When the Arab =
> nations are willing to declare war on Israel again, let me =
> know--otherwise "left" poseur blowhards like Louis Godena will just be =
> farting in the wind.
>
>   MB
>
>
>   On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Louis R Godena =
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>     Clearly, the professor's lofty "let them eat cake" ideals of =
> self-abnegation personal initiative should be applied ONLY to =
> impoverished women and children in the crushed enclaves of our inner =
> cities, and NOT to the people of Gaza or the West Bank or to Occupied =
> Palestine in general. =20
>
>     The "two-state solution," which he implicitly or explicitly endorses =
> exists only among those (like Sharon and Bush) who hope, in their heart =
> of hearts, that the Palestinians can be "ghettoized" into non-existence. =
>  It has about as much credibility now as the old Republican canard about =
> "using the maket to reform Social Security" has in 2009.   As the =
> European Right once longed for a "Judenfrei" Europe (a wish devoutly =
> held by quite a number of non or even "anti" Nazis in England and =
> throughout Western Europe), the modern "liberal" zionist now pines for a =
> disinherited Palestinian "nation", whose "nobility" will be the only =
> compensation paid to that long-suffering people.
>
>     One cannot carry messages for the rich against Castro and Chavez =
> (whose sins are dwarfed by the current leaderships in Tel Aviv and =
> Washington), and in the same breath offer nothing in this forum against =
> far worse crimes closer to home.
>
>     That is the issue.
>
>     Louis Godena
>
>
>       ----- Original Message -----=20
>       From: Michael Balter=20
>       To: [log in to unmask]
>       Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:12 AM
>       Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>
>
>       I've allowed Louis Godena to misrepresent my position in the past =
> (he called me a "racist hypocrite" on one occasion, which drew no =
> protest from our moderator), but I am not going to continue to do so. As =
> anyone who reads my blog knows, I am strongly anti-Zionist and I do not =
> support a two-state solution as the eventual resolution; I am strongly =
> in favor of a one-state solution, although two states may well end up =
> being the only possible provisional route to that ultimate outcome. If =
> we could go straight to one state, I would be entirely in favor of it, =
> but it may not be realistic.
>
>       MB
>
>
>
>
>       On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Louis R Godena =
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>         >...each individual must act--and act in a relevant, useful, =
> effective way--to change [conditions]. Victims, no; victors, yes!
>
>         I agree.  It is far too late for the "liberal" zionists and =
> "human rights" hypocrites like the professor here to "save" the =
> genocidal entity by some apartheid South Africa-style "two state" =
> solution.  Millions of displaced Palestinians cry out for the right to =
> return to their homeland.  The racist settler state will be replaced =
> with a democratic, secular Palestine with equal rights for ALL.
>
>         And all the world will rejoice.
>
>         Louis Godena
>
>
>
>       --=20
>       ******************************************
>       Michael Balter
>       Contributing Correspondent, Science
>       Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
>       Boston University
>
>       Email:           [log in to unmask]
>
>       Website:       michaelbalter.com
>       Balter's Blog: michael-balter.blogspot.com
>       ******************************************=20
>
>
>
>
>   --=20
>   ******************************************
>   Michael Balter
>   Contributing Correspondent, Science
>   Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
>   Boston University
>
>   Email:           [log in to unmask]
>
>   Website:       michaelbalter.com
>   Balter's Blog: michael-balter.blogspot.com
>   ******************************************=20
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0306_01C96C14.11412EC0
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3314" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, the pattern of opposition to =
> zionism is=20
> shifting radically in the m.e., away from the syphilitic, ineffectual =
> and=20
> corrupt Arab regimes to&nbsp;non-state actors&nbsp;like Hamas and =
> Hesbollah and=20
> Democratic Front.&nbsp; A general return of Palestinian refugees and =
> their=20
> descendents to their rightful homes would put paid to the racist entity=20
> overnight.&nbsp; This is the professor's real fear, and all of&nbsp;his=20
> high-toned scatological abuse cannot disguise it.&nbsp; He is literally =
> scared=20
> "shitless" by the thought:-)</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Louis G</FONT></DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>   <DIV=20
>   style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
> black"><B>From:</B>=20
>   <A [log in to unmask]
>   href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Michael Balter</A> </DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
>   [log in to unmask]
>   =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPL=
> [log in to unmask]</A>=20
>   </DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 01, =
> 2009 12:36=20
>   PM</DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: "Why =
> Self-Discipline Is=20
>   Overrated"by Alfie Kohn</DIV>
>   <DIV><BR></DIV>Strange, because numerous polls over the past several =
> years=20
>   have indicated that a significant percentage of Palestinians favor a =
> two-state=20
>   solution. I think we have all seen them, here is just one:<BR><BR><A=20
>   =
> href=3D"http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/15253">http://www.angus-reid=
> .com/polls/view/15253</A><BR><BR>Anyone=20
>   who thinks that a one-state solution is possible anytime in the =
> realistic=20
>   future has got their head entirely up their ass, for the obvious =
> reason that=20
>   to put it in effect would require an entirely different balance of =
> power in=20
>   the region than exists now. When the Arab nations are willing to =
> declare war=20
>   on Israel again, let me know--otherwise "left" poseur blowhards like =
> Louis=20
>   Godena will just be farting in the wind.<BR><BR>MB<BR><BR>
>   <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Louis R =
> Godena <SPAN=20
>   dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A=20
>   =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>=
> &gt;</SPAN>=20
>   wrote:<BR>
>   <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
>   style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
> rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
>     <DIV bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Clearly, the professor's lofty "let =
> them eat=20
>     cake" ideals of self-abnegation personal initiative&nbsp;should be=20
>     applied&nbsp;ONLY to impoverished women and children in the crushed =
> enclaves=20
>     of our inner cities, and NOT to the people of Gaza or the West Bank =
> or=20
>     to&nbsp;Occupied Palestine in&nbsp;general.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The "two-state solution," which he =
> implicitly=20
>     or explicitly endorses exists&nbsp;only among those (like Sharon and =
> Bush)=20
>     who hope, in their heart of hearts, that the Palestinians can be=20
>     "ghettoized" into non-existence.&nbsp; It has about as much =
> credibility now=20
>     as the old Republican canard about "using the maket to reform Social =
>
>     Security" has in 2009.&nbsp;&nbsp; As the European Right once longed =
> for a=20
>     "Judenfrei" Europe (a wish devoutly held by quite a number of non or =
> even=20
>     "anti" Nazis in England and throughout Western Europe), the modern =
> "liberal"=20
>     zionist now pines for a disinherited Palestinian "nation", whose =
> "nobility"=20
>     will be the only compensation paid to that long-suffering=20
>     people.</FONT></DIV>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One cannot carry messages for the =
> rich against=20
>     Castro and Chavez (whose sins are dwarfed by the current leaderships =
> in Tel=20
>     Aviv and Washington), and in the same breath offer nothing in this =
> forum=20
>     against far worse crimes closer to home.</FONT></DIV>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><I>That </I>is the =
> issue.</FONT></DIV>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT =
> color=3D#888888>
>     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Louis Godena</FONT></DIV></FONT>
>     <DIV>
>     <DIV></DIV>
>     <DIV class=3DWj3C7c>
>     <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
>     <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
>     <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>     style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>       <DIV=20
>       style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
> normal">-----=20
>       Original Message ----- </DIV>
>       <DIV=20
>       style=3D"BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial; =
> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: =
> -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; =
> moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>=20
>       <A [log in to unmask] =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
>       target=3D_blank>Michael Balter</A> </DIV>
>       <DIV=20
>       style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
> normal"><B>To:</B>=20
>       <A [log in to unmask]
>       href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
>       target=3D_blank>[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
>       <DIV=20
>       style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
> normal"><B>Sent:</B>=20
>       Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:12 AM</DIV>
>       <DIV=20
>       style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
> normal"><B>Subject:</B>=20
>       Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn</DIV>
>       <DIV><BR></DIV>I've allowed Louis Godena to misrepresent my =
> position in=20
>       the past (he called me a "racist hypocrite" on one occasion, which =
> drew no=20
>       protest from our moderator), but I am not going to continue to do =
> so. As=20
>       anyone who reads my blog knows, I am strongly anti-Zionist and I =
> do not=20
>       support a two-state solution as the eventual resolution; I am =
> strongly in=20
>       favor of a one-state solution, although two states may well end up =
> being=20
>       the only possible provisional route to that ultimate outcome. If =
> we could=20
>       go straight to one state, I would be entirely in favor of it, but =
> it may=20
>       not be realistic.<BR><BR>MB<BR><BR><BR><BR>
>       <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Louis R =
> Godena=20
>       <SPAN dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
>       target=3D_blank>[log in to unmask]</A>&gt;</SPAN> =
> wrote:<BR>
>       <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
>       style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; =
> BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
>         <DIV bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
>         <DIV>&gt;...each individual must act--and act in a relevant, =
> useful,=20
>         effective way--to change [conditions]. Victims, no; victors,=20
>         yes!<BR><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I agree.&nbsp; It is far =
> too late=20
>         for the "liberal" zionists and "human rights" hypocrites like =
> the=20
>         professor here to "save" the genocidal entity by some apartheid =
> South=20
>         Africa-style "two state" solution.&nbsp; Millions of displaced=20
>         Palestinians cry out for the right to return to their =
> homeland.&nbsp;=20
>         The racist settler state will be replaced with a democratic, =
> secular=20
>         Palestine with equal rights for ALL.</FONT></DIV>
>         <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>         <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And all the world will=20
> rejoice.</FONT></DIV>
>         <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT =
> color=3D#888888>
>         <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Louis=20
>       Godena</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR=20
>       clear=3Dall><BR>-- =
> <BR>******************************************<BR>Michael=20
>       Balter<BR>Contributing Correspondent, Science<BR>Adjunct Professor =
> of=20
>       Journalism,<BR>Boston University<BR><BR>Email: &nbsp; &nbsp; =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;=20
>       &nbsp; <A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
>       target=3D_blank>[log in to unmask]</A><BR><BR>Website: =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;=20
>       &nbsp; <A href=3D"http://michaelbalter.com"=20
>       target=3D_blank>michaelbalter.com</A><BR>Balter's Blog: <A=20
>       href=3D"http://michael-balter.blogspot.com"=20
>       =
> target=3D_blank>michael-balter.blogspot.com</A><BR>**********************=
> ********************=20
>       <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR =
> clear=3Dall><BR>--=20
>   <BR>******************************************<BR>Michael=20
>   Balter<BR>Contributing Correspondent, Science<BR>Adjunct Professor of=20
>   Journalism,<BR>Boston University<BR><BR>Email: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
> &nbsp;=20
>   &nbsp; <A=20
>   =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A><BR>=
> <BR>Website:=20
>   &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <A=20
>   href=3D"http://michaelbalter.com">michaelbalter.com</A><BR>Balter's =
> Blog: <A=20
>   =
> href=3D"http://michael-balter.blogspot.com">michael-balter.blogspot.com</=
> A><BR>******************************************=20
>   <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0306_01C96C14.11412EC0--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:57:43 -0500
> From:    Mitchel Cohen <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Uprising in Greece (Radio Show), FRIDAY 11 a.m.m
>
> Announcing:
>
> FRIDAY, January 2, 2009 on STEAL THIS RADIO, hosted by Mitchel Cohen
> 11 a.m.
> http://www.nytalkradio.net
> Click on "Listen Live"
>
> This week's show: The Uprising in Greece, with professor Costas   
> Panayotakis and French legislator Olivier Beaubillard, AND
>
> The assassination of Michael Connell, Karl Rove's elections "fixer"
>
> Don't miss this show, only over the magic of the internet! Friday, at 11 a.m.
>
>
> **************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 20:05:51 -0500
> From:    Mitchel Cohen <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: From Cynthia McKinney: We Lived to Tell the Story; Lebanon   
> Rescued Us
>
> ------=_Part_2614_9757961.1230858351483
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
> THIS is why I supported Cynthia McKinney for President, as a Green Party ca=
> ndidate. She and the other extraordinary people attempting to deliver medic=
> al supplies to Gaza were attacked by Israeli boats in international waters.=
>  They were saved by Lebanon, and by the Al Jazeera and Int'l CNN (different=
>  from what's shown in the US) reporters aboard, who told the truth and, for=
>  Al Jazeera, did so over live TV. Cynthia and all aboard, we here in Brookl=
> yn are very, very proud of you. Stay strong, and force the world, if need b=
> e, to pay close attention.
>
> Mitchel Cohen
> Brooklyn Greens/Green Party
>
>
> PLEASE FORWARD EVERYWHERE
>
> January 1, 2009 - We Lived to Tell the Story:  Lebanon Rescued Us
>
> Yesterday, we met with the President of Lebanon, the Chief of the Military,=
>  and the Interior Minister who all thanked us for responding and risking ou=
> r lives on a mission of mercy; we profusely thanked them for rescuing us.
>
> What would we have done, stranded out at sea, prohibited from reaching our =
> destination, low on fuel, with a badly damaged boat if Lebanon had not acce=
> pted us?  Lebanon sent their ships to find us.  Lebanon rescued us.  Lebano=
> n welcomed us.  And we are truly thankful.
>
> It's official now.  We've been told that the sturdy, wood construction of o=
> ur boat, Dignity, is the reason we are still alive.  Fiberglass would proba=
> bly not have withstood the impact of the Israeli attack and under different=
>  circumstances, we might not be here to tell the story.  Even at that, the =
> report that came to us yesterday after the Captain and First Mate went back=
>  to Sour (Tyre) to inspect the boat was that it was sinking, the damage is =
> extensive, and the boat will take, in their estimation, at least one month =
> to repair.  Tomorrow, we will bring the Dignity from Sour to Beirut.  And n=
> ow, we must decide what to do and from where we will do it and how we are t=
> o get back to wherever that might be.
>
> My personal, and I know the group's, thanks must go to Al Jazeera, that all=
> owed three of their reporters to be onboard with us on our voyage.  As a re=
> sult, Al Jazeera carried the story of the Dignity live, from castoff in Cyp=
> rus when our spirits were high, right up through the manacing maneuvers of =
> the huge, super fast Israeli ships before they rammed us, the Israeli calls=
>  on the ship phone after the ramming calling us terrorists and subversives =
> and telling us to return to Cyprus (even though the Israelis later claimed =
> that they didn't know who we were, they knew enough about us to tell us whe=
> re we had come from), and the fact that we didn't have enough fuel to follo=
> w their instructions, right up to their threat to fire at us if we didn't t=
> urn around, ending with our beaten-up boat limping into Sour harbor in Leba=
> non.  Al Jazeera carried our story as "breaking news" and performed a real =
> service to its audience and to us.  Al Jazeera called the Israelis to inqui=
> re about the incident right as it was happening and I am sure the Israelis =
> were prepared to leave none to tell the story.  Al Jazeera told the story a=
> nd documented it as it was happening.
>
> One of those Al Jazeera reporters with us was Sami El-Haj, who was detained=
>  in Guantanamo by the United States for six incredibly long years.  What an=
>  honor to even exchange glances with such a humble man who had endured so m=
> uch pain at the hands of the U.S. government.  I apologized to him that my =
> tax dollars were being used in such a despicable way.  And Sami's crime acc=
> ording to the U.S.?  Born in Sudan, and reporting for Al Jazeera in Afghani=
> stan, Sami was the wrong color, the wrong nationality, the wrong religion, =
> reporting for the wrong news outfit, telling us the truth about a wrong war=
> .  And for that he survived incarceration for six long years.  Sami El-Haj,=
>  Guantanamo prisoner number 345.
>
> Another incredibly committed journalist who was with us was CNN's Karl Penh=
> aul.   Karl reported the truth even when his own station was repeating Isra=
> eli disinformation.  The fact that we were traveling with these alert journ=
> alists added to the flat-footedness and obvious crudeness of the Israeli re=
> sponse.  Sadly, Israel has changed its story too many times to count, and t=
> hat's because they are not telling the truth.
>
> We lived to tell the story.   Karl's incredible reporting, just a portion o=
> f our story, can be seen on CNN at:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/30/gaza.aid.boat/index.html
>
> where there's also video and a photo of our damaged boat.  A little more of=
>  the story and film of the extensive damage can be seen at:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/30/gaza.aid.boat/index.html#cnnSTCVi=
> deo
>
> This video and the photos of Karl's report is particularly interesting give=
> n that Israel claims that our boat was only scratched and that, in actualit=
> y, our captain, while trying to outmaneuver them, damaged their warship.
>
> I'm told that CNN only played my full statement once--and that's the time t=
> hat it aired live.  Of course, they cut the reference to the U.S.S. Liberty=
> .  What are they afraid of?
>
> Last night I was on PressTV.com, along with others who were on the Dignity,=
>  and we debated a representative from WINEP, the Washington Institute for N=
> ear East Policy.  I reminded the audience that the Palestinians don't have =
> nuclear weapons, depleted uranium munitions, white phosphorous, or F-16s, b=
> ut the Israelis do.  The facts, however, tend to get garbled after being pr=
> ocessed by the "Grand Wurlitzer" organ of state-sponsored disinformation ut=
> ilizing the world's press.
>
> With the truth clearly on our side, Israel has been reduced to releasing th=
> e ridiculous bombast below, given to me by a reporter who came to our hotel=
>  in Beirut for a visit.  With their multiple, conflicting stories, it is cl=
> ear that the Israelis did not expect us to live to tell the truth.=20
>
> On the drive from Sour through Saida to Beirut, we were welcomed like heroe=
> s because our ordeal had been seen by everyone on Al Jazeera.    The mayor =
> of Sour came to welcome us.  The mayor of Saida insisted that we stop there=
> , on our way to Beirut, for a special ceremony.  But there was something el=
> se that was visible along our drive, and that is the devastation that Leban=
> on, itself, has received as a result of the Israeli war machine.  The scars=
>  of the war are still evident everywhere.  I will write more on that tomorr=
> ow.
>
> And one final note, President-elect Obama roared like a mighty lion onto th=
> e political scene, but now he is as silent as a lamb in the face of the dea=
> th and destruction that is happening in Gaza.  As we approach the birthday =
> celebration of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. let us remember what Dr. King sa=
> id:
>
> "In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence=
>  of our friends."
>
> And after five days of aerial bombardment by Israel, the carnage in Gaza co=
> ntinues.
>
> Here is the palaver that the Israelis put out for public consumption.  It i=
> s pitiful that a powerful and mighty country like Israel would be reduced t=
> o publishing something so petty and weak as the following press release dat=
> ed December 30, 2008:
>
>
> seal
> Consulate General of Israel to the Southeast
>
> Press Release
> Office of Media Affairs
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> 12.30.2008
>
> Israel continues to take its humanitarian relief efforts in Gaza seriously.=
>   Border crossings into Gaza remain open, and every effort is being made to=
>  deliver aid to the Palestinian people.  Nearly 100 trucks carrying relief =
> supplies entered Gaza on the 28th & 29th of December and additional shipmen=
> ts are arriving.  Israel is working closely with UNSCO, UNRWA, the Red Cros=
> s, and WHO to ensure the entry of the required aid, especially food and med=
> ical equipment.
>
> Unfortunately, former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney has taken it upon hers=
> elf to commit an act of provocation, leading a small boat of supposed assis=
> tants into the conflict zone.  She endangered herself, her assistants, and =
> the vessel's crew.  The Israeli navy hailed Ms. McKinney but the former Con=
> gresswoman failed to respond, thereby leading to the incident.  We regret t=
> hat during this time of crisis, while Israel is battling with the terrorist=
>  organization of Hamas and defending its citizens, that we are forced to de=
> al with Ms. McKinney's irresponsible behavior.
>
> Consulate General of Israel
> to the Southeast
> 1100 Spring St NW, Ste 440
> Atlanta, GA 30309-2823
>
> Michael Printy Arthur
> Director of Media Affairs
> 404.487.6511
> [log in to unmask]
>
> For additional information, please visit our website.
>
> --=20
> The shock, awe and heart attacks that followed Madoff's confession that he =
> was 'running a Ponzi scheme' drew as much anger for the money lost and the =
> fall from the moneyed class as for the embarrassment of knowing that the wo=
> rld's biggest exploiters and smartest swindlers on Wall Street, were comple=
> tely 'taken' by one of their own.  Not only did they suffer big losses but =
> their self-image of themselves as rich because they are so smart and of 'su=
> perior stock' was utterly shattered:  They saw themselves as suffering the =
> same fate as all the schmucks they had previously swindled, exploited and d=
> ispossessed in their climb to the top.  There is nothing worse for the ego =
> of a respectable swindler than to be trumped by a bigger swindler.  As a re=
> sult, a number of the biggest losers have so far refused to give their name=
> s or the amount they lost, working instead through lawyers fighting off oth=
> er losers.
> --James Petras
>
> "And advanced forms of biological warfare that can 'target' specific genoty=
> pes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politica=
> lly useful tool."
> --PNAC, Rebuilding America's Defenses, p. 60
>
> The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and polic=
> ies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish ide=
> a acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two pa=
> rties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw th=
> e rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extensive=
>  shifts in policy.
> --Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in our Time
>
>
>
> ------=_Part_2614_9757961.1230858351483
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> _______________________________________________
> Updates mailing list
> [log in to unmask]
> http://lists.allthingscynthiamckinney.com/listinfo.cgi/updates-allthingscynthiamckinney.com
>
> ------=_Part_2614_9757961.1230858351483--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 20:04:33 -0800
> From:    Michael H Goldhaber <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>
> --Apple-Mail-6--841197071
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	charset=US-ASCII;
> 	format=flowed;
> 	delsp=yes
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> All right, I was wrong. Self-discipline of participants in the SftP
> list would be a good thing, and and MB and LG ought to start
> practicing it, asap. There is no need for name-calling, so please stop.
>
>
>
> Best,
> Michael
>
> On Jan 1, 2009, at 10:23 AM, Louis R Godena wrote:
>
>> Well, the pattern of opposition to zionism is shifting radically in
>> the m.e., away from the syphilitic, ineffectual and corrupt Arab
>> regimes to non-state actors like Hamas and Hesbollah and Democratic
>> Front.  A general return of Palestinian refugees and their
>> descendents to their rightful homes would put paid to the racist
>> entity overnight.  This is the professor's real fear, and all of his
>> high-toned scatological abuse cannot disguise it.  He is literally
>> scared "shitless" by the thought:-)
>>
>> Louis G
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Michael Balter
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>>
>> Strange, because numerous polls over the past several years have
>> indicated that a significant percentage of Palestinians favor a two-
>> state solution. I think we have all seen them, here is just one:
>>
>> http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/15253
>>
>> Anyone who thinks that a one-state solution is possible anytime in
>> the realistic future has got their head entirely up their ass, for
>> the obvious reason that   to put it in effect would require an
>> entirely different balance of power in the region than exists now.
>> When the Arab nations are willing to declare war on Israel again,
>> let me know--otherwise "left" poseur blowhards like Louis Godena
>> will just be farting in the wind.
>>
>> MB
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Louis R Godena <[log in to unmask]
>> > wrote:
>> Clearly, the professor's lofty "let them eat cake" ideals of self-
>> abnegation personal initiative should be applied ONLY to
>> impoverished women and children in the crushed enclaves of our inner
>> cities, and NOT to the people of Gaza or the West Bank or to
>> Occupied Palestine in general.
>>
>> The "two-state solution," which he implicitly or explicitly endorses
>> exists only among those (like Sharon and Bush) who hope, in their
>> heart of hearts, that the Palestinians can be "ghettoized" into non-
>> existence.  It has about as much credibility now as the old
>> Republican canard about "using the maket to reform Social Security"
>> has in 2009.   As the European Right once longed for a "Judenfrei"
>> Europe (a wish devoutly held by quite a number of non or even "anti"
>> Nazis in England and throughout Western Europe), the modern
>> "liberal" zionist now pines for a disinherited Palestinian "nation",
>> whose "nobility" will be the only compensation paid to that long-
>> suffering people.
>>
>> One cannot carry messages for the rich against Castro and Chavez
>> (whose sins are dwarfed by the current leaderships in Tel Aviv and
>> Washington), and in the same breath offer nothing in this forum
>> against far worse crimes closer to home.
>>
>> That is the issue.
>>
>> Louis Godena
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Michael Balter
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by Alfie Kohn
>>
>> I've allowed Louis Godena to misrepresent my position in the past
>> (he called me a "racist hypocrite" on one occasion, which drew no
>> protest from our moderator), but I am not going to continue to do
>> so. As anyone who reads my blog knows, I am strongly anti-Zionist
>> and I do not support a two-state solution as the eventual
>> resolution; I am strongly in favor of a one-state solution, although
>> two states may well end up being the only possible provisional route
>> to that ultimate outcome. If we could go straight to one state, I
>> would be entirely in favor of it, but it may not be realistic.
>>
>> MB
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Louis R Godena <[log in to unmask]
>> > wrote:
>> >...each individual must act--and act in a relevant, useful,
>> effective way--to change [conditions]. Victims, no; victors, yes!
>>
>> I agree.  It is far too late for the "liberal" zionists and "human
>> rights" hypocrites like the professor here to "save" the genocidal
>> entity by some apartheid South Africa-style "two state" solution.
>> Millions of displaced Palestinians cry out for the right to return
>> to their homeland.  The racist settler state will be replaced with a
>> democratic, secular Palestine with equal rights for ALL.
>>
>> And all the world will rejoice.
>>
>> Louis Godena
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ******************************************
>> Michael Balter
>> Contributing Correspondent, Science
>> Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
>> Boston University
>>
>> Email:           [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Website:       michaelbalter.com
>> Balter's Blog: michael-balter.blogspot.com
>> ******************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ******************************************
>> Michael Balter
>> Contributing Correspondent, Science
>> Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
>> Boston University
>>
>> Email:           [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Website:       michaelbalter.com
>> Balter's Blog: michael-balter.blogspot.com
>> ******************************************
>
>
> --Apple-Mail-6--841197071
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
> -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">All right, I was wrong. =
> Self-discipline&nbsp;of&nbsp;participants&nbsp;in the SftP list would be =
> a good thing, and and MB and LG ought to&nbsp;start&nbsp;practicing it, =
> asap. There is no need for name-calling, so please =
> stop.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div><br><div> <div><p style=3D"margin: 0.0px =
> 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Hoefler Text; min-height: =
> 14.0px"><br></p> <p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font =
> face=3D"Hoefler Text" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Hoefler =
> Text">Best,</font></p> <p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px =
> 0.0px"><font face=3D"Hoefler Text" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px =
> Hoefler Text">Michael</font></p> </div> </div><br><div><div>On Jan 1, =
> 2009, at 10:23 AM, Louis R Godena wrote:</div><br =
> class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div =
> bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Well, the =
> pattern of opposition to zionism is shifting radically in the m.e., away =
> from the syphilitic, ineffectual and corrupt Arab regimes =
> to&nbsp;non-state actors&nbsp;like Hamas and Hesbollah and Democratic =
> Front.&nbsp; A general return of Palestinian refugees and their =
> descendents to their rightful homes would put paid to the racist entity =
> overnight.&nbsp; This is the professor's real fear, and all of&nbsp;his =
> high-toned scatological abuse cannot disguise it.&nbsp; He is literally =
> scared "shitless" by the thought:-)</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial"=
>  size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Louis=
>  G</font></div> <blockquote style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: =
> 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
> 0px">  <div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
> </div>  <div style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
> black"><b>From:</b>   <a title=3D"[log in to unmask]" =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Michael Balter</a> </div>  <div =
> style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a =
> title=3D"[log in to unmask]" =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE=
> @LIST.UVM.EDU</a>   </div>  <div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> =
> Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:36   PM</div>  <div style=3D"FONT: 10pt =
> arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is   Overrated"by Alfie =
> Kohn</div>  <div><br></div>Strange, because numerous polls over the past =
> several years   have indicated that a significant percentage of =
> Palestinians favor a two-state   solution. I think we have all seen =
> them, here is just one:<br><br><a =
> href=3D"http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/15253">http://www.angus-reid.=
> com/polls/view/15253</a><br><br>Anyone   who thinks that a one-state =
> solution is possible anytime in the realistic   future has got their =
> head entirely up their ass, for the obvious reason that   to put it in =
> effect would require an entirely different balance of power in   the =
> region than exists now. When the Arab nations are willing to declare war =
>   on Israel again, let me know--otherwise "left" poseur blowhards like =
> Louis   Godena will just be farting in the wind.<br><br>MB<br><br>  <div =
> class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Louis R Godena =
> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>>=
> </span>   wrote:<br>  <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
> rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">    <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">    <div><font =
> face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Clearly, the professor's lofty "let them eat   =
>   cake" ideals of self-abnegation personal initiative&nbsp;should be     =
> applied&nbsp;ONLY to impoverished women and children in the crushed =
> enclaves     of our inner cities, and NOT to the people of Gaza or the =
> West Bank or     to&nbsp;Occupied Palestine in&nbsp;general.&nbsp; =
> </font></div>    <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div> =
>    <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">The "two-state solution," which =
> he implicitly     or explicitly endorses exists&nbsp;only among those =
> (like Sharon and Bush)     who hope, in their heart of hearts, that the =
> Palestinians can be     "ghettoized" into non-existence.&nbsp; It has =
> about as much credibility now     as the old Republican canard about =
> "using the maket to reform Social     Security" has in 2009.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
> As the European Right once longed for a     "Judenfrei" Europe (a wish =
> devoutly held by quite a number of non or even     "anti" Nazis in =
> England and throughout Western Europe), the modern "liberal"     zionist =
> now pines for a disinherited Palestinian "nation", whose "nobility"     =
> will be the only compensation paid to that long-suffering     =
> people.</font></div>    <div><font face=3D"Arial" =
> size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div>    <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">One=
>  cannot carry messages for the rich against     Castro and Chavez (whose =
> sins are dwarfed by the current leaderships in Tel     Aviv and =
> Washington), and in the same breath offer nothing in this forum     =
> against far worse crimes closer to home.</font></div>    <div><font =
> face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div>    <div><font face=3D"Arial"=
>  size=3D"2"><i>That </i>is the issue.</font></div>    <div><font =
> face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div><font color=3D"#888888">    =
> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Louis Godena</font></div></font>    =
> <div>    <div></div>    <div class=3D"Wj3C7c">    <div>&nbsp;</div>    =
> <div>&nbsp;</div>    <blockquote style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; =
> PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; =
> MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">      <div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; =
> font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----       Original =
> Message ----- </div>      <div style=3D"BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); =
> FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; =
> moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; =
> moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><b>From:</b>       <a =
> title=3D"[log in to unmask]" =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">Michael =
> Balter</a> </div>      <div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: =
> none; font-stretch: normal"><b>To:</b>       <a =
> title=3D"[log in to unmask]" =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" =
> target=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]</a> </div>      =
> <div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
> normal"><b>Sent:</b>       Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:12 AM</div>     =
>  <div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
> normal"><b>Subject:</b>       Re: "Why Self-Discipline Is Overrated"by =
> Alfie Kohn</div>      <div><br></div>I've allowed Louis Godena to =
> misrepresent my position in       the past (he called me a "racist =
> hypocrite" on one occasion, which drew no       protest from our =
> moderator), but I am not going to continue to do so. As       anyone who =
> reads my blog knows, I am strongly anti-Zionist and I do not       =
> support a two-state solution as the eventual resolution; I am strongly =
> in       favor of a one-state solution, although two states may well end =
> up being       the only possible provisional route to that ultimate =
> outcome. If we could       go straight to one state, I would be entirely =
> in favor of it, but it may       not be =
> realistic.<br><br>MB<br><br><br><br>      <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
> Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Louis R Godena       <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
>  href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" =
> target=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br>      =
> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: =
> 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">        <div =
> bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">        <div>>...each individual must act--and act =
> in a relevant, useful,         effective way--to change [conditions]. =
> Victims, no; victors,         yes!<br><br><font face=3D"Arial" =
> size=3D"2">I agree.&nbsp; It is far too late         for the "liberal" =
> zionists and "human rights" hypocrites like the         professor here =
> to "save" the genocidal entity by some apartheid South         =
> Africa-style "two state" solution.&nbsp; Millions of displaced         =
> Palestinians cry out for the right to return to their homeland.&nbsp;    =
>      The racist settler state will be replaced with a democratic, =
> secular         Palestine with equal rights for ALL.</font></div>        =
> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div>        =
> <div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">And all the world will =
> rejoice.</font></div>        <div><font face=3D"Arial" =
> size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div><font color=3D"#888888">        <div><font =
> face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Louis       =
> Godena</font></div></font></div></blockquote></div><br><br =
> clear=3D"all"><br>-- =
> <br>******************************************<br>Michael       =
> Balter<br>Contributing Correspondent, Science<br>Adjunct Professor of    =
>    Journalism,<br>Boston University<br><br>Email: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
> &nbsp;       &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" =
> target=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]</a><br><br>Website: &nbsp; =
> &nbsp;       &nbsp; <a href=3D"http://michaelbalter.com" =
> target=3D"_blank">michaelbalter.com</a><br>Balter's Blog: <a =
> href=3D"http://michael-balter.blogspot.com" =
> target=3D"_blank">michael-balter.blogspot.com</a><br>*********************=
> *********************       =
> <br></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br =
> clear=3D"all"><br>--   =
> <br>******************************************<br>Michael   =
> Balter<br>Contributing Correspondent, Science<br>Adjunct Professor of   =
> Journalism,<br>Boston University<br><br>Email: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
> &nbsp;   &nbsp; <a =
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br><=
> br>Website:   &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a =
> href=3D"http://michaelbalter.com">michaelbalter.com</a><br>Balter's =
> Blog: <a =
> href=3D"http://michael-balter.blogspot.com">michael-balter.blogspot.com</a=
>> <br>******************************************   =
> <br></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=
>
> --Apple-Mail-6--841197071--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 1 Jan 2009 20:26:26 -0800
> From:    Michael H Goldhaber <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: supermarkets and the poor
>
> --Apple-Mail-7--839883461
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	charset=WINDOWS-1252;
> 	format=flowed;
> 	delsp=yes
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Michael Balter cited a study =
> http://www.fns.usda.gov/oane/menu/Published/snap/FILES/ProgramOperations/r=
> etailer.pdf=20
>   that supposedly reveals that the poor can easily shop in =20
> supermarkets. According to the paragraphs from the executive summary =20
> of it that I copy below, that is not actually what the study shows. =20
> Note also that this is only a study of food-stamp users. Not all the =20
> poor actually are able to get food stamps or do so. Not all food-stamp =20=
>
> users are rerpesentative of inner-city poor. I personally know of many =20=
>
> cases in which supermarkets in poor neighborhoods have closed, and =20
> such closures are frequently cited.  If one is shopping for bargains, =20=
>
> and trying to stretch food dollars or stamps, one will not necessarily =20=
>
> eat a well-balanced or non-fattening diet. Having to walk or use =20
> public transit to get to and from a supermarket, also would likely =20
> inhibit the purchase of fresh or even canned vegetables, which tend to =20=
>
> be quite heavy and often bulky. If one must rely on others for =20
> transport to the supermarket one also must shop for a probably =20
> extended time period, which also makes fresh foods problematic.
>
> In general, my experience withe the USDA makes me mistrust anything =20
> they publish. So below I appended the title and abstract of another =20
> study that draws conclusions in line with my assertions. It was not =20
> hard to find.
>
> USDA study cited by MB:
>
> Approximately one-third of low-income households usually shop for food =20=
>
> within a mile
> of where they live.  Another third shop at stores between one and four =20=
>
> miles away.  However, many
> food stamp recipients do not shop at the store nearest them.  The =20
> average round trip takes about 24
> minutes.
> For households who do not usually shop in their neighborhoods, the =20
> most common reasons
> for going to other areas to shop were high prices in their =20
> neighborhood (47 percent) and lack
> of stores (51 percent).  Being embarrassed to use food stamps locally =20=
>
> and crime rates were only
> infrequently mentioned (two percent and one percent of households, =20
> respectively).
> Most low-income households use the automobile as their form of =20
> transportation for food
> shopping, but fewer than half use their own car.  Approximately 45 =20
> percent of food stamp
> recipients drove themselves to food shopping, while another 31 usually =20=
>
> got rides with friends or
> relatives.  The next most commonly reported method of transportation =20
> to the food store was walking
> (14 percent overall and 17 percent for the elderly).  Approximately 20 =20=
>
> percent of food stamp
> participants had out-of-pocket costs for transportation to purchase =20
> food, with about 17 percent
> having out-of-pocket costs of $4.00 per trip.
> Substantial majorities of the respondent households reported that they =20=
>
> either usually or
> fairly often engaged in =93careful shopping=94 activities designed to =20=
>
> stretch their food-buying
> resources.  Among the most commonly reported activities were comparing =20=
>
> prices across
> supermarkets, looking for grocery =93specials,=94 and stocking up on =20
> bargains.
>
>
> CALIFORNIA POLITICS & POLICY
>
> Vol. 7, No. 1, June, 2003
>
> WHY THERE WILL BE NO CHAIN
>
> SUPERMARKETS IN POOR INNER-CITY
>
> NEIGHBORHOODS
>
> TOM LARSON
>
> Department of Economics and Statistics
>
> California State University, Los Angeles
>
>
> This study first describes why having full-service grocery stores is =20
> important in neighborhoods. Stores are not needed just for shopping =20
> convenience; they also affect the nutrition and health of a =20
> neighborhood, provide jobs, and increase the central city=92s tax base. =20=
>
> Next is a brief summary of alternative views on rebuilding inner =20
> cities. The scarcity of major chain supermarkets in inner cities is =20
> explained via a review of the economic literature on the modern =20
> supermarket industry. Then, the viability of independent, full-service =20=
>
> grocery stores in inner cities is examined through a review of food =20
> pricing surveys. The ability of independents to compete with major =20
> chain stores in low-income neighborhoods in Los Angeles is supported =20
> by the results of an original survey of grocery store prices in Los =20
> Angeles. The study concludes with suggestions for new strategies for =20
> bringing supermarkets to inner cities.
>
>
> Best,
> Michael
>
>
> --Apple-Mail-7--839883461
> Content-Type: text/html;
> 	charset=WINDOWS-1252
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
> -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Michael Balter cited a =
> study&nbsp;<a =
> href=3D"http://www.fns.usda.gov/oane/menu/Published/snap/FILES/ProgramOper=
> ations/retailer.pdf">http://www.fns.usda.gov/oane/menu/Published/snap/FILE=
> S/ProgramOperations/retailer.pdf</a>&nbsp;that supposedly reveals that =
> the&nbsp;poor&nbsp;can&nbsp;easily&nbsp;shop in supermarkets. According =
> to the&nbsp;paragraphs&nbsp;from the&nbsp;executive&nbsp;summary of it =
> that I copy below, that is not actually what the study shows. Note also =
> that this is only a study of food-stamp users. Not all the poor actually =
> are able to get food stamps or do so. Not all food-stamp users are =
> rerpesentative of inner-city poor. I personally know of many cases in =
> which supermarkets in poor&nbsp;neighborhoods&nbsp;have&nbsp;closed, and =
> such&nbsp;closures&nbsp;are frequently cited. &nbsp;If one is shopping =
> for bargains, and trying to stretch food dollars or stamps, one will not =
> necessarily eat a well-balanced&nbsp;or non-fattening diet. Having to =
> walk or use public&nbsp;transit&nbsp;to get to and from =
> a&nbsp;supermarket, also would likely inhibit the&nbsp;purchase&nbsp;of =
> fresh or even canned vegetables, which tend to be quite heavy and often =
> bulky. If one must rely on others for transport to the supermarket =
> one&nbsp;also&nbsp;must shop for a probably extended time period, =
> which&nbsp;also&nbsp;makes fresh foods =
> problematic.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>In general, =
> my&nbsp;experience&nbsp;withe the USDA&nbsp;makes&nbsp;me mistrust =
> anything they publish. So below I appended the title =
> and&nbsp;abstract&nbsp;of another study that draws conclusions in line =
> with my assertions. It was not hard to =
> find.&nbsp;<br><div><br></div><div>USDA study cited by =
> MB:</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: =
> Times; font-size: 12px; "></span><br><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span"=
>  style=3D"font-family: Times; font-size: 12px; "><b>Approximately =
> one-third of low-income households usually shop for food within a =
> mile</b><span style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></span><div =
> apple-content-edited=3D"true"><div><p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px =
> 0.0px; font: 12.0px Hoefler Text; min-height: 14.0px"><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Times; "><b>of =
> where they live.&nbsp; </b>Another third shop at stores between one and =
> four miles away.&nbsp; However, many<span style=3D"font: 12.0px =
> Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
> normal normal 12px/normal Times; ">food stamp recipients do not shop at =
> the store nearest them.&nbsp; The average round trip takes about 24<span =
> style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Times; =
> ">minutes.<span style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Times; "><b>For =
> households who do not usually shop in their neighborhoods, the most =
> common reasons</b><span style=3D"font: 12.0px =
> Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
> normal normal 12px/normal Times; "><b>for going to other areas to shop =
> were high prices in their neighborhood (47 percent) and lack</b><span =
> style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Times; "><b>of =
> stores (51 percent).</b>&nbsp; Being embarrassed to use food stamps =
> locally and crime rates were only<span style=3D"font: 12.0px =
> Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
> normal normal 12px/normal Times; ">infrequently mentioned (two percent =
> and one percent of households, respectively).<span style=3D"font: 12.0px =
> Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
> normal normal 12px/normal Times; "><b>Most low-income households use the =
> automobile as their form of transportation for food</b><span =
> style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Times; =
> "><b>shopping, but fewer than half use their own car.&nbsp; =
> </b>Approximately 45 percent of food stamp<span style=3D"font: 12.0px =
> Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
> normal normal 12px/normal Times; ">recipients drove themselves to food =
> shopping, while another 31 usually got rides with friends or<span =
> style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Times; =
> ">relatives.&nbsp; The next most commonly reported method of =
> transportation to the food store was walking<span style=3D"font: 12.0px =
> Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
> normal normal 12px/normal Times; ">(14 percent overall and 17 percent =
> for the elderly).&nbsp; Approximately 20 percent of food stamp<span =
> style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Times; =
> ">participants had out-of-pocket costs for transportation to purchase =
> food, with about 17 percent<span style=3D"font: 12.0px =
> Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
> normal normal 12px/normal Times; ">having out-of-pocket costs of $4.00 =
> per trip.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
> 12px/normal Times; "><b>Substantial majorities of the respondent =
> households reported that they either usually or</b><span style=3D"font: =
> 12.0px Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
> normal normal 12px/normal Times; "><b>fairly often engaged in =93careful =
> shopping=94 activities designed to stretch their food-buying</b><span =
> style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Times; =
> "><b>resources.&nbsp; </b>Among the most commonly reported activities =
> were comparing prices across<span style=3D"font: 12.0px =
> Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
> normal normal 12px/normal Times; ">supermarkets, looking for grocery =
> =93specials,=94 and stocking up on bargains.<span style=3D"font: 12.0px =
> Helvetica">&nbsp;</span></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
> face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
> face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
> face=3D"Helvetica"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: =
> Times; font-size: 20px; "><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"4" =
> color=3D"#0000ff"><b><p align=3D"CENTER">CALIFORNIA POLITICS &amp; =
> POLICY</p></b></font><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"4"><p =
> align=3D"CENTER">Vol. 7, No. 1, June, 2003</p></font><b><font =
> face=3D"Arial" size=3D"5" color=3D"#ff0000"><p align=3D"CENTER"><a =
> href=3D"http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/tlarson/LarsonSupermarkets.pdf">=
> WHY THERE WILL BE NO CHAIN</a></p></font></b><p align=3D"CENTER"><b><font =
> face=3D"Arial" size=3D"5" color=3D"#0000FF">SUPERMARKETS IN POOR =
> INNER-CITY</font></b></p><p align=3D"CENTER"><b><font face=3D"Arial" =
> size=3D"5" color=3D"#0000FF">NEIGHBORHOODS</font><font face=3D"Arial" =
> size=3D"5" color=3D"#ff0000"></font></b></p><b><font face=3D"Arial" =
> size=3D"5" color=3D"#ff0000"></font><font face=3D"Arial" =
> color=3D"#800000"><p align=3D"CENTER"><a =
> href=3D"http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/tlarson/tlarson.htm">TOM =
> LARSON</a></p></font></b><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><p =
> align=3D"CENTER">Department of Economics and Statistics</p><p =
> align=3D"CENTER">California State University, Los =
> Angeles</p><div>&nbsp;<br =
> class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><dir><dir><p>This study first =
> describes why having full-service grocery stores is important in =
> neighborhoods. Stores are not needed just for shopping convenience; they =
> also affect the nutrition and health of a neighborhood, provide jobs, =
> and increase the central city=92s tax base. Next is a brief summary of =
> alternative views on rebuilding inner cities. The scarcity of major =
> chain supermarkets in inner cities is explained via a review of the =
> economic literature on the modern supermarket industry. Then, the =
> viability of independent, full-service grocery stores in inner cities is =
> examined through a review of food pricing surveys. The ability of =
> independents to compete with major chain stores in low-income =
> neighborhoods in Los Angeles is supported by the results of an original =
> survey of grocery store prices in Los Angeles. The study concludes with =
> suggestions for new strategies for bringing supermarkets to inner =
> cities.</p></dir></dir></font></span></font></div></p> <p style=3D"margin:=
>  0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Hoefler Text" size=3D"3" =
> style=3D"font: 12.0px Hoefler Text">Best,</font></p> <p style=3D"margin: =
> 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Hoefler Text" size=3D"3" =
> style=3D"font: 12.0px Hoefler Text">Michael</font></p> </div> =
> </div><br></div></div></div></body></html>=
>
> --Apple-Mail-7--839883461--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE Digest - 31 Dec 2008 to 1 Jan 2009 (#2009-2)
> **************************************************************************
>


----- Terminar mensaje de [log in to unmask] -----

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
May 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LIST.UVM.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager