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MUNINET  August 2010

MUNINET August 2010

Subject:

Re: Education Rebates

From:

"[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Vermont Municipal Government Discussion Network <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 22 Aug 2010 09:08:58 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (480 lines)

If they filed a valid VT Income Tax return claiming this state as primary residence, they may be right.
B.



------- Original Message -------
From : Marianne A. Blake[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent : 8/18/2010 10:58:00 AM
To : [log in to unmask]
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: Education Rebates

 
Dave,
I have contacted the tax department on a few instances of what I believe to
be tax fraud. Someone has a Mass. mailing address, they have Mass.
registration plates, they occupy the house seasonally. Yet they claim the
property as their primary residence. And the tax dept agreed. After
a few of these instances, I don't bother reporting anything anymore. As
the state has said (PVR) we listers aren't the homestead police.
Marianne in Windsor
 

In a message dated 8/17/2010 3:11:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
The
  legislature has funded additional enforcement personnel in the
tax
  department to increase enforcement of our tax laws. And, I have
heard from
  several individuals who have not liked having to pay more
because they have
  been found in violation of Vermont tax laws. If
the department needs
  to look in new areas or approach different
parameters I would like to know
  so we can pass this information on
to the tax department. Better yet, you
  should contact the tax
department and let them know where violations are
  taking place and
action they might take to correct the
  problem.

Regards,
Dave



> There are definitely
  people who abuse the system. If we become
> aware of one
>
  of these situations, as Mr.Gregoire notes below, who is supposed to
> do
  the
> policing? We have had listers say that it isn't their
  job. Will
> the State
> intervene and do some
  checking?
>
> Town of Putney
> Barbara Taylor
> Asst
  clerk
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original
  Message-----
> From: Vermont Municipal Government Discussion
  Network
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of James
  Gregoire
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 6:34 PM
> To:
  [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Education
  Rebates
>
>
> I would argue that a significant % of people
  abuse the system from
> those who
> shelter income such as several
  self employed people I've come across
> to
> those who live in
  Florida primarily, whose "residence" here is
> neither
> insulated
  or heated nor approved as a residence (ie: seasonal
> camp)and
  who
> DEFINITELY are not here on April 1st.
> There are a slew of
  people that refuse to understand that it isn't
> their
> money
  (the state payment) so in our town, every year we get
> accusations
  of
> how we are tricking them or cheating them out of their 4%
  discount
> on that
> money. I explain that the correct way to look
  at it is that the
> state
> payment itself is one large discount.
  We get people who want us to
> give them
> the state payment and
  have their full bill paid out of their escrow.
> There are a ton of
  other issues on that end but another with our
> system is
> the
  total disconnect between school spending and the tax rate for
> the
  town-
> you could increase spending and see the tax rate decrease
  or
> decrease
> spending and have the tax rate increase. It is a
  bad system made
> worse with
> every modification.
>
>
  James
>
> James Gregoire
> Board of Listers, Chair
>
  Town of Fairfield
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
  Vermont Municipal Government Discussion Network
>
  [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Melissa Ross
> Sent: Friday,
  August 13, 2010 10:25 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re:
  Education Rebates
>
> Thank you for your response. Though we
  can all come up with
> anecdotal
> evidence of some people using
  the system and bending the rules, I
> think in
> general it is
  fair and works very well. Now that the HS-122 will no
>
  longer
> need to be filed every year, this should also reduce the number
  of
> late-filers which is a large part of the hassle of administering
  the
> law.
> There is no perfect system though we might all wish
  there were!
> Taxpayers
> certainly appreciate the assistance they
  receive, and it has made my
> job
> much easier now that people
  can actually see the adjustment applied
> to their
> bill and
  recognize the help they are receiving.
>
> Melissa Ross
>
  Town Clerk & Treasurer
> Town of Hinesburg
> P.O. Box
  133
> Hinesburg, VT 05461
> (802)482-2281
>
>
  -----Original Message-----
> From: Vermont Municipal Government
  Discussion Network
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Dave
  Sharpe
> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:27 PM
> To:
  [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Education
  Rebates
>
>
> I have some concern that the education
  financing system that we
> have, though flawed, is not well understood
  and is being judged
> based on misinformation. I hope someone from the
  tax department will
> make the effort to offer a better explanation than
  I can offer.
>
> I would like to offer a couple of points,
  however. First, second
> homes or any other non-residential property is
  not eligible for
> income sensitivity, only one's residence. Secondly,
  in order to
> receive a income credit on one's residence one needs to
  file an
> income tax return, that is how the credit is calculated. To
  behave
> otherwise is tax fraud.
>
> The criticisms
  regarding the preferential treatment of those
> households who live in
  homes of relative high value relative to
> their income DO get a more
  substantial credit than the same
> household living in a home of low
  value relative to their income.
> Additionally, the criticisms regarding
  the asset value some
> taxpayers have accumulated have some validity and
  the administration
> and legislature have worked over the last several
  years to address
> this situation. It does make one pause to wonder if
  these
> individuals are paying their fair share of INCOME taxes
  considering
> the income sensitivity calculation is based on a higher
  income
> calculation than these individuals are paying their income tax
  on.
> These problems do tend to make those of us who are frugal and
  play
> by the rules somewhat resentful of those that game the
  system.
>
> One of the difficulties that continues to bother me is
  how does a
> tax system differentiate between the household living in a
  half
> million dollar home with a $450K mortgage and the retired
  couple
> that has paid off their home which has increased in value over
  the
> years so it is now worth a half million yet they have no
  mortgage.
>
> The concept of a simple income tax system has been
  debated over the
> years and has not garnered enough support in either
  the various
> administrations or the legislative bodies primarily
  because of the
> significant increase in taxes that would be collected
  from the
> households earning more than
  $250,000.
>
>
> Regards,
> Rep. Dave
  Sharpe
>
>
>
>> I have to agree with Lisa regarding
  this broken system. In Groton
>> we also have people with
  $300,000 - $500,000++ homes on our lakes
>> (several of which are 2nd
  homes to boot!) and they receive large
>> education tax
  payments. I'm willing to bet the payments are MOST
>> likely
  not due to income taxes overpaid.
>> If you can't afford the taxes on
  these homes then maybe you
>> shouldn't own them? And certainly
  should not be owning multiple
>> homes and receiving this
  help.
>> I lived on our largest lake for 14 years and when the taxes
  got
>> higher than what we felt we wanted to pay we sold the home
  and
>> moved
>> off the lake. Darn, if we had stayed,
  with this system in place
>> now
>> and my menial income
  from the Town, my education tax payment
>> credit
>> would
  be huge and all the other residents would be paying my
>>
  taxes!
>> Poor timing on my part I guess lol. But I sleep well
  at
>> night......
>>
>> Roberta Dana
>>
  Town Treasurer & Tax Collector
>> Groton, VT
>>
  802-584-3131
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: St. Albans Town
  Assistant Clerk
>> To:
  [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010
  9:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: Education
  Rebates
>>
>>
>> Also, mobile home
  owners who own the home but rent the land, get
>> a
>>
  renters rebate on top of the tax rebate, often getting more rebate
>>
  than owed. these don't bother me so much as the general rule is
>>
  that they are elderly on fixed incomes and need every break they
>>
  can get. the example below must be they have no reportable income
>>
  which makes the rebate much higher.
>>
>> i feel
  this whole program/system is broken. i'm seeing very well
>> off
  people with $500,000 homes, who own prominent businesses,
>> getting
  taxed for $8000.00 to $10,000.00 and the state rebates all
>> but 1-2
  thousand of it. so the people who only bought a
>> $160,000.00 house,
  with obviously less income.... being mindful of
>> the high taxes a
  more expensive house is going to have, gets about
>> 700.00
  rebated. so the person being the most financially
>>
  responsible loses out, and ends up paying more taxes to the town
>>
  than the one that owns the mansion!! go
  figure.
>>
>> Lisa Assistant Town
  Clerk
>>
  [log in to unmask]
>>
>> -----
  Original Message -----
>> From: Grace, Mary
  Jane
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
     Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 07:51
>>
     Subject: Re: Education
  Rebates
>>
>>
>> There can be a
  few reasons. Perhaps the individual included
>> some
>>
  income tax refund money. Maybe the relative assessed value
  of
>> the property changed considerably from the previous year.
  Was
>> the town reappraised this year. It's possible the parcel
  was
>> over-assessed previously relative to other properties in
  town.
>> Maybe the effective tax rate changed considerably from
  the
>> previous year. The income sensitivity payment is a
  "look-back."
>> It uses the previous year's income, assessment
  and taxes. You
>> have to look at all those
  pieces.
>>
>>
>>
>>
  Hope this
  helps.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
     Mary Jane Grace, Program Technician
>>
>>
     Property Valuation and Review
  Division
>>
>> Vermont Dept. of
  Taxes
>>
>>
  802-828-5863
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
     From: Vermont Municipal Government Discussion Network
>>
  [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Town Clerk
>>
     Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 3:54 PM
>>
     To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject:
  Education Rebates
>>
>>
>>
>>
     Hi All!
>>
>>
         I know this question has been asked before,
  but
>> for
>> the life of me I can't recall any of the
  answers
>> that have been given.
>>
>>
     Here's the situation: a property owner has a non
  taxable
>> income, files an HS122 and gets an income sensitivity
  refund
>> greater than his actual property tax, so, we send him a
  check
>> for the difference.
>>
>>
               How is it possible for someone
  to get a "refund"
>> greater than what they owe? Does it seem
  right that
>> some tax payers are not only supplementing
  the
>> entire property tax of others, but also giving
  them
>>
  extra?
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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