Hi Ernie,

Thanks for all you do for us, and for your wilingness to rule with democratic openness.
  
Just to clarify one detail for everyone -- Yes, the Cornell Club of Vermont is a non-profit.  However, we are required by Cornell to cover our costs for the educational events we bring to Vermont.  And, when the Lab of Ornithology goes on the road, there is always an admission cost associated with their events (as those who attended the Macauley Lab presentation at Montshire Museum will recall).  

The preliminary notice that I sent to VTBIRD a week or so ago indicated that admission and venue were TBD.  The Board of the Cornell Club is getting final approval on the details from the Lab, and will be ready to send out a more complete notice of the event this week.  But, I know that due to the costs of renting the Echo Center (which will be the venue), etc., there will be an admission charge.

Please let me know if the community objects to posting this event given that it will not be free.

Personally, I'm very excited that we will have the ex-director and a significant researcher on Loons with us for an evening presentation and outing with quality one on one time to talk about birds and what's going on at the Lab.   I hope you all agree.

Thanks,
Scott Sainsbury

On Aug 13, 2010, at 11:16 AM, Ernie Buford wrote:

> My apologies for singling Cynthia out (perhaps unfairly).  This message generated a couple of complaints and struck me as good example for conversation's sake (albeit off-topic).  Thank you, Cynthia, for clarifying your innocent, good intent and for marking your message OT (off topic) in the first place, which is an admirable practice.
> 
> At the risk of belaboring the issue, the Nikon binoculars announcement is apparently a tip to what was discerned to be a good deal on optics by the contributor, who clearly disclaimed any affiliation with the seller.  The Cornell Club is a non-profit announcing an event that is free to the public.  Personally, I don't mind (but am also not very interested in) Cynthia's message about the photography workshop.  Others do mind and would rather not see any advertising on VTBIRD, even if it's the finessed kind of advertising done by photographers who share links (occasionally way too many) to their web site.
> 
> In an attempt to clarify the bounds here, I've added the following instruction to VTBIRD guidelines:
> 
>    Fee-based events and services should NOT be advertised on VTBIRD except
>    by non-profit organizations.  Professional photographers are encouraged to share
>    their work to the extent that it supports legitimate subject matter but should refrain
>    from explicit self-promotion.
> 
> How about that, VTBIRDers?  As always, I'm interested in your feedback.
> 
> Starting to feel like a lawyer,
> Ernie
> 
> On 8/11/2010 6:07 PM, cynthia crawford wrote:
>> Hello Ernie
>> 
>> My apologies-I have no monetary investment in this-quite the contrary- -just thought it might be of interest.   I do know some photographers who post links to their bird pictures on this site, and when you get to their pages, there are offers for classes, workshops, trips, and photos for sale.   So yes, I guess I think it is rather a gray area.  What about the "Nikon binoculars" announcement, or the "Cornell Club" event, which does not sound like a non-profit benefit.... though I could be wrong about that. (I hope I am!).  I have absolutely no objection to any of these, but I do feel a bit unfairly singled out.
>> Even so, I am sorry if this was offensive. I will remove it if you wish.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Cynthia Crawford
>> 
>> On 8/11/10, *Ernie Buford* <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>> 
>>    I'm not entirely certain of the motivation for this announcement,
>>    but it seems to stray into the area of commercial advertisements,
>>    which are not allowed on VTBIRD.
>> 
>>    Several of our subscribers attempt to make a living photographing
>>    birds, leading tours or workshops, etc., and they generally do not
>>    overtly advertise on VTBIRD (although one could argue that sharing
>>    a link to a blog, online gallery, or other promotional web site
>>    constitutes advertisement.... admittedly, it's a bit of a gray
>>    area).  In the interest of fairness and reduced list clutter,
>>    please do not post this type of advertisement unless it's for a
>>    non-profit organization.
>> 
>>    Best regards,
>>    Ernie Buford
>>    VTBIRD List Owner
>>    http://www.uvm.edu/~ebuford/vtbird.html
>>    <http://www.uvm.edu/%7Eebuford/vtbird.html>
>> 
>