An inspiring call, Herb. I don't know whether Michael
is able to respond to it, or even to take it in; but
the rest of us should.
By the way, I still learn a lot from MR. This
is not to deny that your time may be better spent
working for your adjunct union. I am not an adjunct
and have not been for many years, but I know a lot of
adjuncts, and wow-- talk about wretched of the earth!
On Sat, 28 May 2011, herb fox wrote:
> Gee Michael, I'd like to give you credit for turning me around or opening my
> eyes; but it appears that you jumped to a confusion. Because i have never
> and do not now support attacks on popular socialist movements as exist in
> Venezuela i could not support your insistent one-sided attacks on the faults
> of Cuba and Venezuela. Generally i ignore the remarks of caudillos that i
> find foolish. That Hugo opened the gates to a popular movement was more
> important than his clownish behavior and Fidel's analysis and expelling
> imperial US was more important than his reluctance to leave power. I did
> know Hugo's position on Syria but i had not seen the MRZ reprint of the
> foreign policy statement. It is difficult to take seriously, just simply as
> a readable document. You are correct certainly that Louis keeps up with MR.
> He 's one of those very well informed persons and knowledgeable Marxists that
> unfortunately you drove off this list. As you may remember, because i
> invited you to join when you were at BU, i was a participant in an MR
> discussion group. I left several months ago because of the burdens of
> organizing and now serving on the bargaining committee of our adjunct union.
> Do take credit for informing me that MR has gone stupid. I'll write them a
> As for Chavez being an appropriate leader for the international socialist
> movement. Never. Never should the working class even accept the concept of
> one leader. All power to the working class is not all power to this or that
> caudillo. Hugo is one of the leaders of anti-imperialist states that has
> enabled the previously disenfranchised of his country to gain some control
> over their own cirumstances. His behavior may destroy the Bolivarian
> revolution; but i'm afraid we cannot do much about it. It may be that
> socialism in one country is not possible; but certainly anti-imperialism is.
> I see you standing alone on the bow of the ship of the international leftist
> movement pointing out to all us poorly informed, lifelong leftists the
> correct view on various leaders, and how we must break with this or that.
> Like Hugo you have the answers and the passion to pursue your goal of
> rectifying the leftist movement. I do not have all the answers; but i do
> have some idea what would really advance the cause of socialism in the
> world--If the working class in this imperial cesspool were to take their
> rightful place as the leading class. The biggest obstacle to that happening
> is the consciousness of the class, not that a few miniscule sects and
> individuals have not overcome their infantile blind following of leaders just
> because the leaders have done some good things like throw out the
> imperialists or whatever. In my judgment raising consciousness in the class
> is key. How to do that is a worthwhile endeavor and i'm quite sure that
> there is not just one way to go about it. My experience, however, is that
> workers are bored with attacks on the bad, would-be socialist leaders here
> and there in in the third world. But, man, do they get motivated when they
> grasp who they are and that there is possible a society different from the
> one that alienates them daily, a society that they themselves will construct
> not Hugo Chavez.
> How about it Michael? How to raise consciousness among the class in the
> metropols? What role can scientists play? To what extent are scientists a
> component of the working class and do they identify as such. What does it
> mean to call for a science for the people in our society?
> keep on truckin' bro
> On 5/28/2011 9:35 AM, Michael Balter wrote:
>> Yes, MRz under its current editor does endorse Qaddafi's crackdown on the
>> movement against him as well as Chavez's endorsement of that crackdown, you
>> just need to read the publication regularly as Louis has been doing.
>> But if Herb is only now becoming aware of how f...up Venezuelan policy is,
>> it can hardly be a dead horse. It has taken time for some segments of the
>> left to begin to realize that Chavez is not an appropriate leader for the
>> international socialist movement and, possibly, that Venezuela is not an
>> appropriate model for the kind of society we want to see (we've had out
>> Stalins, we don't need demagogic caudillos either.)
>> All these things can be debated, but please don't say that your eyes have
>> only just now opened to the realities of Venezuelan foreign policy and then
>> try to kill the messenger who has been trying to persuade you of that fact.
>> It is unseemly to do so. But this evidence that my message is getting
>> through can only encourage me to continue to spread it.