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SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE  May 2011

SCIENCE-FOR-THE-PEOPLE May 2011

Subject:

Re: Hugo Chavez, Monthly Review, and the Syrian torture state

From:

Chandler Davis <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Science for the People Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 28 May 2011 21:36:13 -0400

Content-Type:

TEXT/PLAIN

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

TEXT/PLAIN (91 lines)

An inspiring call, Herb.  I don't know whether Michael
is able to respond to it, or even to take it in; but
the rest of us should.
 	By the way, I still learn a lot from MR.  This
is not to deny that your time may be better spent
working for your adjunct union.  I am not an adjunct
and have not been for many years, but I know a lot of
adjuncts, and wow-- talk about wretched of the earth!
 			Chandler



On Sat, 28 May 2011, herb fox wrote:

> Gee Michael, I'd like to give you credit for turning me around or opening my 
> eyes; but it appears that you jumped to a confusion.  Because i have never 
> and do not now support attacks on popular socialist movements as exist in 
> Venezuela i could not support your insistent one-sided attacks on the faults 
> of Cuba and Venezuela.  Generally i ignore the remarks of caudillos that i 
> find foolish.  That Hugo opened the gates to a popular movement was more 
> important than his clownish behavior and Fidel's analysis and expelling 
> imperial US was more important than his reluctance to leave power.  I did 
> know Hugo's position on Syria but i had not seen the MRZ reprint of the 
> foreign policy statement.  It is difficult to take seriously, just simply as 
> a readable document. You are correct certainly that Louis keeps up with MR. 
> He 's one of those very well informed persons and knowledgeable Marxists that 
> unfortunately you drove off this list.  As you may remember, because i 
> invited you to join when you were at BU, i was a participant in an MR 
> discussion group.  I left several months ago because of the burdens of 
> organizing and now serving on the bargaining committee of our adjunct union. 
> Do take credit for informing me that MR has gone stupid.  I'll write them a 
> letter
>
> As for Chavez being an appropriate leader for the international socialist 
> movement. Never.  Never should the working class even accept the concept of 
> one leader.  All power to the working class is not all power to this or that 
> caudillo.  Hugo is one of the leaders of anti-imperialist states that has 
> enabled the previously disenfranchised of his country to gain some control 
> over their own cirumstances.  His behavior may destroy the Bolivarian 
> revolution; but i'm afraid we cannot do much about it.  It may be that 
> socialism in one country is not possible; but certainly anti-imperialism is.
>
> I see you standing alone on the bow of the ship of the international leftist 
> movement pointing out to all us poorly informed, lifelong leftists the 
> correct view on various leaders, and how we must break with this or that. 
> Like Hugo you have the answers and the passion to pursue your goal of 
> rectifying the leftist movement.  I do not have all the answers; but i do 
> have some idea what would really advance the cause of socialism in the 
> world--If the working class in this imperial cesspool were to take their 
> rightful place as the leading class.  The biggest obstacle to that happening 
> is the consciousness of the class, not that a few miniscule sects and 
> individuals have not overcome their infantile blind following of leaders just 
> because the leaders have done some good things like throw out the 
> imperialists or whatever.  In my judgment raising consciousness in the class 
> is key.  How to do that is a worthwhile endeavor and i'm quite sure that 
> there is not just one way to go about it.  My experience, however, is that 
> workers are bored with attacks on the bad, would-be socialist leaders here 
> and there in in the third world.  But, man, do they get motivated when they 
> grasp who they are and that there is possible a society different from the 
> one that alienates them daily, a society that they themselves will construct 
> not Hugo Chavez.
>
> How about it Michael?  How to raise consciousness among the class in the 
> metropols?  What role can scientists play?  To what extent are scientists a 
> component of the working class and do they identify as such.  What does it 
> mean to call for a science for the people in our society?
>
> keep on truckin' bro
> herb
>
> On 5/28/2011 9:35 AM, Michael Balter wrote:
>> Yes, MRz under its current editor does endorse Qaddafi's crackdown on the 
>> movement against him as well as Chavez's endorsement of that crackdown, you 
>> just need to read the publication regularly as Louis has been doing.
>> 
>> But if Herb is only now becoming aware of how f...up Venezuelan policy is, 
>> it can hardly be a dead horse. It has taken time for some segments of the 
>> left to begin to realize that Chavez is not an appropriate leader for the 
>> international socialist movement and, possibly, that Venezuela is not an 
>> appropriate model for the kind of society we want to see (we've had out 
>> Stalins, we don't need demagogic caudillos either.)
>> 
>> All these things can be debated, but please don't say that your eyes have 
>> only just now opened to the realities of Venezuelan foreign policy and then 
>> try to kill the messenger who has been trying to persuade you of that fact. 
>> It is unseemly to do so. But this evidence that my message is getting 
>> through can only encourage me to continue to spread it.
>> 
>> MB
>>

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