Perhaps it's worth observing that no nation has successfully 
industrialized without immense loss of human life. Probably U.S. 
industrialization destroyed about 6 million African lives. Beyond that, 
for just a 'taste' of the cost of industrialization, read Melville, A 
Tartarus of Maids, or a few of Jack London's works. Life expectancy of 
blacksmiths in some English districts was 27. Coal companies in Britain 
could dig lower (and therefor cheaper) tunnels from the place the coal 
was mined to the shaft if they could use children rather than donkeys to 
pull the carts. The child labor laws were modified to allow for this 
desperate need.

Another current problem. Not a single "democratic" nation (outside the 
capitalist core) has been able to protect itself from external 
dominance. Quentin Roosevelt wrote a book boasting of his (as CIA 
bigwig) overthrowing the only democratically  elected president in the 
history of Iran. There have been how many attempts to assassinate 
Castro? Yet he was the only   chief executive in the world to ride 
around in public with no protection except the driver of his jeep. 
Imagine Obama tootling around New York City or Arthur Illinois in a jeep!

Check out every president of a Latin American nation who was both a 
patriot (i.e. did not provide a 'claimate' 'friendly' to U.S. business) 
and did not end up dead or in exile. Has Michael B been sending posts 
expressing his outrage of the U.S. approval of the overthrow of the 
elected President of Honduras?

But MB has a phobia, like a cat phobia. It's that fear he expresses, not 
a political position that could be defended as a political position. 
Hence posts such as this are merely for the entertainement of the writer 
and of other sane list members, not to cure MB of his phobia. It can't 
be done.

Carrol