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MEDLIB-L  December 2017, Week 2

MEDLIB-L December 2017, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Replacement for Beall's yet

From:

Matthew Noe <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Matthew Noe <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 12 Dec 2017 10:26:03 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (186 lines)

I'm sorry, but it is disingenuous to discuss anything regarding Beall while
refusing to discuss open access. That's like saying you want to discuss
foreign affairs without discussing politics. At every step of the way,
Beall's attempts to counter predatory publishing took swipes at open
access, despite repeated critiques toward him and his list.

That said, I'm quite curious about this claim: "Time was this industry
policed itself to great effect.". Are you suggesting that once upon a time,
medical publishing was free of the biases of those writing articles, those
editing said articles, the culture in which it was published, and so on?

On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Truex, Eleanor <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Tom,
> I'm short on time today but I wanted to respond to you. Thank you for your
> reply and for all the replies I have received. I have gotten many emails
> about this thread. I am glad of it--we librarians need to take these things
> seriously. One way to do that is to exchange opinions and experiences via
> list-serves. I am pleased that my "rant" (written during my lunch hour) has
> stirred thought and discussion. I hope others feel compelled to join the
> discussion.
>
>   "Isn't it ok the pay to play? If the residents pay for their play, so
> let them pay. It's safer than buying a bitcoin ;-)"
>
> Stuffing your money in your mattress is safer than bitcoin. Residents are
> just starting out on their medical careers; some will be clinicians, others
> will become medical academics and/or researchers. Librarians owe it to ALL
> residents to help ground them in accurate, non-biased research. There is
> nothing magical about medical residents: they are prey to the same
> prejudices, weaknesses and temptations as any of us. But they are tasked
> with doing no harm while helping the rest of us. Surely a system to support
> them in these endeavors is not only more seemly, but safer? Medical
> publishing is a very large part of that, since it is the main way
> physicians communicate with one another across the world and across
> specialties. Time was this industry policed itself to great effect. Now,
> the integrity of the system is threatened. Will predatory publishing be the
> death of this industry? I doubt it. But it certainly doesn't help maintain
> the integrity and it damages the field long-term.!
>   On a more practical note: residents are poorly paid and few can afford
> to pay predatory publishing prices. Those I know are NOT covered
> financially by their mentors, Attendings, Department Chairs etc.
>
> "Isn't that [the media pushing false results/poorly structured studies]  a
> separate issue? Tell me who funded the research, and I say what it says.
> That's orthogonal to the mode of publication."
>
> Garbage in is garbage out. Given the fragmentation and siloing of
> information and media these days, we should be more concerned with shoddy
> research, not less. Does commercially-based research ipso facto indicate
> biased results. Maybe not. Maybe so. One way to be sure is to not have
> commercially-biased research. It's the task of the media to report
> findings. Ethically they should at least mention possible biases. When was
> the last time you heard a reporter do so regarding medical research? At
> most, I hear them say (sometimes) that the study was small. Doesn't stop
> the headlines screaming that chocolate can make you lose weight or is good
> for your blood pressure or that we should all drink wine every day etc.
>
> To your other points: I explicitly state I was not (and am not) entering
> into the OA debate. I have mixed opinions on it, as do most people, I
> imagine, but they are irrelevant to the matter at hand: my "rebuttal" of Mr
> Swauger's public reprimand of one of his employees and what that implied
> about medical and hospital librarians as a whole. I don't speak to Beall's
> position on that subject at all, and I won't. Your argument seems to boil
> down to "Well, he was against OA and then dissed his employers who
> supported him". That may well be true, but again, not my issue and does not
> validate Swauger's position in his article, which is must be said, was a
> "diss" right back Beall.
>
> As for PubMed being some kind of panacea for predatory publishing, I don't
> understand your point. PubMed is a wonder and (hopefully) a joy forever,
> but it will not stem the tide of PP. Its board that decides what journals
> become indexed within PubMed is not designed as a bulwark against PP; it's
> designed to ensure integrity of a healthy system. IMO, it will soon be
> overwhelmed, if it is so not already (pure speculation on my part; my
> working knowledge of the upper echelons of PubMed and NCBI is miniscule).
> It's beyond their purview, IMO, to take on this task, but they do play a
> part.
>
> My remark about being desperate for tools is not in reference to PubMed or
> any other medical database. Librarians need education on how to spot PP; we
> need lists such as Beall's (NOT due to inherent laziness or sloppy thinking
> which is strongly implied by Swauger) and other rubrics for determining the
> ethical standards of websites and other e-media. There have been classes
> provided by NNLM and MLA and thank goodness for that. But more needs to be
> done. So many of us work solo and are navigating without maps. Others have
> coworkers and colleagues, but lack funding to provide classes or the
> opportunity to send their staff to them. I wouldn't go so far as to say
> that we're flying blind, but our planes are getting smaller and the weather
> (to beat this metaphor to death) is deteriorating rapidly.
>
>
>
>
> Eleanor Truex BSN, RN, MLIS
> Medical Librarian, Lakeshore Region
>
> THIS IS THE POWER OF COMPASSION.
> THIS IS PRESENCE.
>
> Presence
> Saint Joseph Hospital
> 2900 North Lake Shore Drive | Chicago, IL 60657
> Office: 773.665.3038
> Internal: 81.665.3038
>
> Presence
> Saint Francis Hospital
> 355 North Ridge Avenue | Evanston , IL 60202
> Office: 847.316.2460
> Internal: 81.847.2460
> [log in to unmask]
> presencehealth.org
>
> Connect with Presence Health
> Find a Doctor | Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube
>
> Sponsored by Presence Health Ministries
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Krichel [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 9:20 PM
> To: Truex, Eleanor <[log in to unmask]>
> Cc: Medlib-L List <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Replacement for Beall's yet
>
>   Truex, Eleanor writes
>
> > Seriously, Swauger's solution to predatory publishing is "let the
> > reader beware"?  What of our medical residents who are preyed upon by
> > these sharks with outrageous pay-to-play schemes?
>
>   Isn't it ok the pay to play? If the residents pay for their play, so
>   let them pay. It's safer than buying a bitcoin ;-)
>
> > What of the media, as well as the producers of quackery, who can (and
> > do) pick up poorly-structured studies/ outright false results and push
> > them to further their agendas?
>
>   Isn't that a separate issue? Tell me who funded the research, and I say
>   what it says. That's orthogonal to the mode of publication.
>
> > Claiming this is the result of privilege is missing the point:
>
>   I fully agree!
>
> > how do we as librarians help protect the integrity of medical
> > literature? That's the original purpose of Beall's list.
>
>   It was a purpose. But there also was a clear bias against open
>   access. It may not have been explicit on the list but it certainly
>   was obvious from his talk about it.
>
>   I met him in May 2016 and he hinted to me at ending his work. And
>   later he did. And then he blamed UC Denver, who as far as I can tell
>   him supported him through thick and thin.
>
> > We are overwhelmed and desperate for tools.
>
>   But we are privileged to have PubMed. No other academic discipline
>   has something anywhere nearly as good. Sure, it's not the be-all and
>   end-all.  Clearly we can do with more tools. I am building one
>   right now.
>
> --
>
>   Cheers,
>
>   Thomas Krichel                  http://openlib.org/home/krichel
>                                               skype:thomaskrichel
>



-- 

Matthew N. Noe, MSLS
Library Fellow | Lamar Soutter Library
Graphic Medicine Specialist | NNLM/NER
University of Massachusetts Medical School
508-856-2229 | [log in to unmask]
Graphic Medicine Blog: www.graphiclibrarian.wordpress.com

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January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
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July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
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June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 4
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May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
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February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
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July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
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May 2002, Week 3
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May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
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September 1999, Week 3
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September 1999, Week 1
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June 1999, Week 5
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May 1999, Week 1
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April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
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March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3
September 1998, Week 2
September 1998, Week 1
August 1998, Week 5
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August 1998, Week 3
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August 1998, Week 1
July 1998, Week 5
July 1998, Week 4
July 1998, Week 3
July 1998, Week 2
July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
October 1997, Week 2
October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
September 1997, Week 4
September 1997, Week 3
September 1997, Week 2
September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
August 1997, Week 4
August 1997, Week 3
August 1997, Week 2
August 1997, Week 1
July 1997, Week 5
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July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
June 1997, Week 4
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May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
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April 1997, Week 5
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April 1997, Week 3
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April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
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February 1997, Week 1
January 1997, Week 5
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January 1997, Week 3
January 1997, Week 2
January 1997, Week 1
December 1996, Week 5
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December 1996, Week 3
December 1996, Week 2
December 1996, Week 1
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October 1996, Week 5
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October 1996, Week 3
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October 1996, Week 1
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June 1996, Week 5
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June 1996, Week 1
May 1996, Week 5
May 1996, Week 4
May 1996, Week 3
May 1996, Week 2
May 1996, Week 1
April 1996, Week 5
April 1996, Week 4
April 1996, Week 3
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April 1996, Week 1
March 1996, Week 5
March 1996, Week 4
March 1996, Week 3
March 1996, Week 2
March 1996, Week 1
February 1996, Week 5
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February 1996, Week 2
February 1996, Week 1
January 1996, Week 5
January 1996, Week 4
January 1996, Week 3
January 1996, Week 2
January 1996, Week 1
December 1995, Week 5
December 1995, Week 4
December 1995, Week 3
December 1995, Week 2
December 1995, Week 1
November 1995, Week 5
November 1995, Week 4
November 1995, Week 3
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November 1995, Week 1
October 1995, Week 5
October 1995, Week 4
October 1995, Week 3
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October 1995, Week 1
September 1995, Week 5
September 1995, Week 4
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September 1995, Week 1
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August 1995, Week 3
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August 1995, Week 1
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July 1995, Week 3
July 1995, Week 2
July 1995, Week 1
June 1995, Week 5
June 1995, Week 4
June 1995, Week 3
June 1995, Week 2
June 1995, Week 1
May 1995, Week 5
May 1995, Week 4
May 1995, Week 3
May 1995, Week 2
May 1995, Week 1
April 1995, Week 5
April 1995, Week 4
April 1995, Week 3
April 1995, Week 2
April 1995, Week 1
March 1995, Week 5
March 1995, Week 4
March 1995, Week 3
March 1995, Week 2
March 1995, Week 1
February 1995, Week 5
February 1995, Week 4
February 1995, Week 3
February 1995, Week 2
February 1995, Week 1
January 1995, Week 5
January 1995, Week 4
January 1995, Week 3
January 1995, Week 2
January 1995, Week 1
December 1994, Week 5
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December 1994, Week 3
December 1994, Week 2
December 1994, Week 1
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October 1994, Week 5
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September 1994, Week 5
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September 1994, Week 1
August 1994, Week 5
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July 1994, Week 3
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July 1994, Week 1
June 1994, Week 5
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June 1994, Week 1
May 1994, Week 5
May 1994, Week 4
May 1994, Week 3
May 1994, Week 2
May 1994, Week 1
April 1994, Week 5
April 1994, Week 4
April 1994, Week 3
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