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COMMUNET  July 1995, Week 1

COMMUNET July 1995, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Good News?

From:

"Daniel D. Todd" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Communet: Community and Civic Network Discussion List

Date:

Thu, 6 Jul 1995 09:38:50 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (132 lines)

On Wed, 5 Jul 1995, Vigdor Schreibman - FINS wrote:
 
>   I have no problem with the legitimate function of maintaining discussion
> on topic.  Nevertheless, in the several years that I have participated in
> discussion lists on the Net it has been my experience that moderators far
> too often use this function to narrowly censor political speech they don't
> favor. Rarely, is the issue one of topical focus.
 
You seem to have missed the point.  The moderator "owns" the mailing
list.  You may agree or disagree with the moderators point of view but
the moderator has the right to publish whatever he or she wishes.  To say
otherwise is like suggesting that you have some special riht to place a
free message in the contents of a private newletter.  You can discuss how
you would like to see the world work all day long but that has nothing to
do with taking rights away from other individuals.  (ie. the right to
control the content of their own publications) There is no right to
control or contribute to the publications of another.
 
 
 
>   This is a strange way to analyze public goods.  One of the most powerful
> human motivations is to be engaged in some profound way in the shaping of
> society.  This is the source of enlightened good will, public service, non
> profit enterprise, and voluntary associations that are essential to the
> democratic mission and the delivery of public goods.  Marketplace
> mechanisms have nothing to do with this.  It is only when individuals and
> organizations wish to use public property for commerical purposes that
> regulation is required.  Commercial entities that are focused not on
> serving the public good but on maximizing private profit destroy the innate
> human motivation that is ordinarily at work.
 
I think we can begin by dispensing with the socialist propoganda regarding
human motivation.  If you wish to discuss the success and accuracy of the
"innate human motivatoin" as being one of goodwill.  We can happily
discuss the recent Eastern European successes off the list.
 
The only item left in the paragraph above then is the idea that an ISP is
providing access to "public goods."  This is patently false.  The
Internet is not publicly run (The NFS is now out of that business).
 
Even if it is somehow accepted that the Internet as an amorphous entity
is a "public good" there is no reason to believe that each ISP is also a
"public good." Most areas have mutiple ISP's and if there is not one
which meets your nedds anyone can begin their own.  This is the beginning
of the great empowerment of the individual.  Empowerment; however, is not
withour effort.  I mean effort at the individual level.
 
 
>   Conduct of "centralized government" has nothing to do with methodologies
> that are employed on a voluntary basis to improve the quality of
> discussion.  The latter is a concern to all providers and users, in an age
> of communications that is interactive.
 
It appears we have strayed far from the original topic.  The point was
that the government is not going to hold ISPs responsible for the content
of messages written by their subscribers.  This is a good thing.  I don't
see anywhere in the original posting it mentioned that the publications
of the ISPs will not be held to the same legal standards as any other
posting with regard to its originator.  The only implication is that the
ISP will not have to try to filter all messages for content that will be
legally actionable. I think this is "Good News' for a number of reasons.
The first and most important reason is the abilityof the ISPs to now
allow for more open discussion.  If the ISP was t obe hld legally liable
for messages originating from is usership they are basically being told
by the government to moderate based on content.  This is what you are
against.
 
It seems the reason we strayed so far off topic is that you have a
distaste for the capitalistic system.  This is demonstrated in your
postings regarding Postal kiosks andmany others.
 
Excerpts form VS Postings on various topics:
 
> >   Nonsense.  It not a question of simple "envy" or conspiracy
theories its
> > a question of citizens expresing outrage over corporate corruption of the
> > legislative process.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Moreover, it a question in thi case of two media
> > representatives defending their advertisers' practices of exploiting
> > the people to the maximum.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Turning the treasure of public information resources over to private
industry so that they can convert it into a commodity, and make a profit
from it will certainly kill the public information system by constraining
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
power and wealth relations.  What gets promoted will depend on how it adds
to the coprorate control imposed on the buyer rather than his or her
liberation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
  That is probably true, the same pathological maniac that the
meg-corporate state put in charge has been attempting to kill the US Post
Office just as, in an earlier time, General Motors sent out a hit squad
to kill off all the city trolly systems.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lincoln's time, and getting better every year until the feds with their
industry handlers decided to kill the system and take it over as a major
transfer of wealth from the people to the corporate centers of power.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  The elections only added greater capacity to the industry initiative to
defraud the people of their information system, whic has been going full
blast under both major parties for the past fifteen years.
 
 
I think there is a clear indictment of the capitalistic system in your
posts.  There is another quote above that is in context: Commercial
entities that are not focused on serving the public good but on maximizing
private profit destroy the innate ...
 
 
I, on the other hand, feel that the capitalistic system does not destroy
the innate human motivation.  I feel that it enhances the human motivation
and instincts that have evolved throughout our history. There has never
been a successful animal or plant that didn't compete for resources. The
history of this planet is based on competition.  To suggest that humanity
is somehow going to "elevate" itself "beyond" this is foolish.
 
Clearly there have been adn continue to be excesses in the capitalistic
system.  There are rules and regulations written to limit those excesses
just as there are rules and regulations which are meant to prevent
excesses at the individual level.
 
Cheers,
Dan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Todd                          \ Web Nerd: http://fusilli.ucdavis.edu
Site License Coordinator          / <This portion intentionally left blank>
University of California at Davis \ In a fundamental sense,
IT-Campus Access Point            / stillness is the antithesis of life
Davis, CA 95616                   \    --Ayn Rand  'The Objectivist Ethics'
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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