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COMMUNET Home

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COMMUNET  September 1997, Week 2

COMMUNET September 1997, Week 2

Subject:

Re: CN Demographic Information?

From:

Vigdor Schreibman - FINS <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Vigdor Schreibman - FINS <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:30:26 -0400

Content-Type:

TEXT/PLAIN

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

TEXT/PLAIN (117 lines)

On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, David McMurtrey wrote:


> Vigdor, you are passionate in presenting your case.  You have tried to be
> diplomatic at times and downright nasty and insulting at other times in
> attempts to bend this group to your will.

  I have made no effort to bend anyone's will.  I was invited to
  facilitate a dialogue concerning the shared purposes and values
  of Community Networking.  I offered no preferred directions but
  invested my time to manage the process only, in an entirely
  impartial way.  No one objected.  The stonewall came later.


  Yet, despite all your efforts,
> not one person has responded to your call.

  I made no call.  The call came from Madeline and her colleagues,
  who added my name to theirs.

  I can't speak for everyone
> else but I will tell you why I have not participated in your envisioning
> process.

  While the envisioning process was not mine but one that the AFCN
  invited and supported, I am delighted to learn at this time what
  your objections are.  It would have been better to learn about
  your ideas and objections before not after the process took place.

>
> I never "agreed" to participate in your process.  I don't believe it is
> possible or even desirable to arrive at a common definition of the
> "implict purposes governing all community networks." We are all different
> and we each have our own sets of objectives and means of survival.  Our
> communities are different and have unique needs, standards, etc based upon
> demographics, economics, geographic location, etc.  Some of us operate for
> profit, others are non-profit.  It is up to each of us to define our own
> networks.

  The possibility of arriving at a common definition of community
  networks is beyond question.  This kind of integration of ideas is
  a well known process.  Had you inquired I could have shown you
  the many many examples where this has been done at every level of
  the civilization: group, organization, neighborhood, community, state,
  society, nation, global.

>
> We also disagree regarding the formation of AFCN.  I see a need for such
> an organization for reasons I have already stated.  Your "envisioning
> process" was instigated under the auspicious of the AFCN movement yet you
> now denounce AFCN because no one has marched to the beat of your drum.

  I agreed to facilitate the process and support the AFCN only if it
  would operate so as to facilitate stakeholder involvement in the
  decision making process.  I am unalterably opposed to any entity
  that seeks to speak for the people who are affected; they must be
  encouraged and facilitated to speak for themselves.

>
> Beyond that, I must say that I see serious problems with your people
> skills.  You cannot expect people to take you seriously when you are so
> inconsistant in your dealings with them.  I think you are sincere in your
> beliefs but I really don't like the total lack of respect that you
> demonstrate towards me and the rest of this group.  You are like a small
> child who wants his cake and wants to eat it too.  Whenever you don't get
> your way through diplomacy, you throw a temper tantrum and insult those
> whom you are trying to convince...this is not a good strategy.

  I suppose it is fair game to start throwing insults around.  This is
  the Internet! Harvard University, professor of business management,
  George Lodge, described in the American Disease 63-64 (1984), the
  crisis in the evolution of society.  Lodge said this crisis resembles,
  "the ailment of a troubled adolescent."  The child like behavior that
  Lodge was speaking about bears no resemblance to what I am calling
  for, namely, participatory governance, but it does look similar to the
  attitude you express, which is a serious barrier to effectiveness.

>
> All of us have ideas ... some good, others not so good.  The best measure
> of their relevance to others is how others respond to them.

  I agree.

  By expressing ideas on the important topics that affect their lives
  people can begin to understand each other and find the path to
  a society of true individuals by creative integration of their ideas.
  This is the way that powerful relationships are built.  This is the
  basis of a true community.  The idea that Community Networkers can
  build community by merely constructing a technology, is not serious.
  If you do not learn how to engage in community building among
  yourselves the possibilities of your building and deploying the
  technology to serve community simply does not exist.

  Presentation
> can make a difference.  I think if you had shown us what you envision
> rather than trying to force us to participate in your process, you might
> have had a bit more success.  The best way to lead is by example.  What
> is your vision Vigdor?

  The decision to stonewall the process was an ill-considered decision, which
  I will do my best to persuade you and others to reconsider.  I am not
  going to force anyone to do anything, that comes when the corporate
  mob exercises their power of control, as they are doing all over the
  world and throughout this once great nation.

  My vision for community networking is not the issue.  I prefer not
  to influence the outcome, but would rather help open the door for
  everyone with a stake in this decision to express their own ideas
  freely and fairly.  However, I would be glad to show examples of other
  similar undertakings for those who wish to study the process.  This is
  an offer that I made at the outset.  It still stands.


Vigdor Schreibman - FINS <[log in to unmask]>
[Browse the new Fins Information Age Library,
now located at URL: http://sunsite.utk.edu/FINS/]

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