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COMMUNET Home

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COMMUNET  October 1997, Week 5

COMMUNET October 1997, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Community Databases

From:

"Kevin C. Marsh" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Community and Civic Network discussion list <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:15:02 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (146 lines)

Well, it looks like Kathryn and I are rapidly converging on a plan of
action.  I've written directly to Madeline Gonzalez to inquire about AFCN
support.  I'd like to hear from more people who would be willing to
participate in a Community Database standards development task force.
Especially those with experience in implementing community databases and
database-driven calendaring software.

Following are exerpts from Kathryn Clodfelter's latest message with my replies:

>>Questions:
>>What other standards should be considered?  (UWASIS?  others?)
>
>Based on some of the posts to this list serve, it appears that a lot of
>effort has already been put into developing Access and other databases for
>community information. I think this is an ideal opportunity to build on
>those efforts. As I mentioned in my earlier post, Access has two major
>drawbacks that SGML does not - SGML is not proprietary (meaning you aren't
>tied in to any one vendor's tools, as you are with Microsoft Access and
>other databases) and SGML also allows for the "coding" of large chunks of
>text.

I think that the existing Access (and other) databases are more interesting
for their field names and internal data structure than for their
(commercial, proprietary) data encoding formats.  We will need to allow for
importing data from DBMSs and encoding it in some (open, non-proprietary)
standard format like a specific SGML or XML document type.  As I mentioned,
I have some tools that can do this.

>
>It's because of these kinds of considerations that I think we will need to
>bring in SGML "specialists" - those who have already implemented SGML-based
>systems on a large scale. Many major companies like Caterpillar and Cummins
>Engine - and even the U.S. Military - have been using SGML-based systems for
>years. Large scale implementations usually involve a variety of software
>tools, including document management and workflow systems.

An SGML DTD for metadata like community database records might be much
simpler than the DTD for document management or workflow systems.  The GILS
model might serve us well, since GILS provides both an SGML DTD and a Z39.50
application profile.  GILS metadata about information resources closely
resembles our metadata about community resources.  But either way, I agree
that support from an SGML specialist will be needed.

>
>I agree that the element set should be first. I think it would be fairly
>easy for a small group of us to get started on this simply by looking at the
>existing community network web sites. We can then post a draft element list
>to the communet list serve and let the full group brainstorming process
>begin.

Sounds good!  Let's assemble the "small group" and get started!

>I still feel, for most folks, having to think like a database can be
>a painful and daunting process, so I hate to bog everyone down in the
>technical details of specifying things like one-to-one & zero-to-many
>relationships, which we will have to start doing when we get to the DTD
>portion.

Yup, that's why we need some serious Librarians and other database gurus on
the task force.
>
>If XML really takes off as it's predicted in the below article, I have a
>hunch that the proponents of XML will spur the major vendors to come up with
>very easy to use mechanisms for capturing and coding content - just as has
>happened for HTML.

Oh no!  I hope the commercial vendors create far better XML tools than the
HTML authoring products currently available.  If there is a single tool out
there that consistently creates valid HTML 3.2 code, not just "good enough
for Netscape", I have not been able to find it.

I expect that most networks will manage their data in DBMS software and
export it to SGML or XML for the forseeable future.  XML output features for
DBMSs seem like a logical prediction, but we'll have to wait and see.  I
agree about the potential of XML.  To quote a friend of mine from another list:

}XML *can* use a structure, called a Document Type Declaration
}just like SGML does to enforce the optionality and repeatibility and
}requirements of the attribute model. This DTD can be included or
}referenced from the document to its location online for validation or
}parsing. So it is an excellent means of exchanging content without loss
}of information.  This is precisely why W3C is using XML as a structural
}supplement to HTML which simply can't do it.  And the spinoff benefit is
}that XML can also be rendered in consistent ways via style sheets, again
}more than HTML can do...
}
}I sure wouldn't discount its importance over the coming months.
}
}Doug Nebert
}FGDC

(Federal Geospatial Data Committee)

>
>As for authenticating the incoming data, I'm not much of a proponent for one
>centralized authenticated tightly-controlled community database (although I
>concede it may wind up being necessary); rather, I'm all for linking to and
>searching the many individual community network databases (tagged in either
>SGML or XML) that will result from this effort, if we do it right.

I expect to see several databases, each with it's own database manager, just
within my own community network.  With Z39.50 indexes, users can easily
select any group of databases they want.  If widely implemented, the kind of
standards we are discussing would make it easy to group related databases
across regional boudaries as needed.  For example, a user or agency in
northern Williamson county could search both Bell and Williamson county
databases from a single Web page.

>I envision that an AFCN-maintained front-end, similar to that already
>developed by Andrew's group in Australia (http://www.infoxchange.net.au/db),
>would ultimately be developed - with a focus at least initially, however, on
>general community content rather than agency-specific information.

Yes!

>
>The AFCN has the potential for playing a big role here by helping make the
>tools and TRAINING available (built-in to the grant proposal, of course) for
>community networks to create their own content following standardized
>"tagging" conventions as outlined in a community network DTD (Document Type
>Definition). However, the individual community networks should maintain and
>publish their own content to allow for individual web site "look and feel"
>and protection of "sensitive" community information - which has already been
>expressed as a major concern about implementing a community network-wide
>database.

That's right.  AFCN can define standards, but implementation needs to be
under local control.

>
>I think a small group of us can get this started, get a deliverable out there
>so the rest of the group has a better idea of what we're talking about in
>real terms with the SGML/XML talk, and then take it from there. Since it is
>a project with such potentially far reaching benefits (as well as
>substantial costs), getting the grant proposal together, hopefully with the
>blessing of the AFCN, should be the highest priority.

Agreed on all counts.  I'm waiting to hear from AFCN and some additional
participants before I start drafting that grant proposal.

Sincerely,

Kevin C. Marsh, Executive Director
Information Access Institute
[log in to unmask]     http://Information.org

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