Hi Penny The first method of simple addition or subtraction of a small amount will generally be fine the d13C values of your samples and references are all fairly similar. My preference is the second method you refer to, to keep a consist form of correction in the lab (it principle). When are quite right in saying that the second method doesn't seem quite right at first, especially when the sample values are close to 0 per mil. However, to avoid this apparent anomaly, instead of directly using the true and measured value of NBS-19 to determine the scale expansion/contraction correction factor, use the difference between your working reference and the NBS-19. For example, in our lab we routinely determine the d13C of plant material from marine environments, which can be anywhere between -7 to -20 per mil. So, I will use a wheat flour working ref (-25.34 per mil) and USGS41 (+37.76) to determine the scale expansion/contraction correction i.e. all sample values must fall between the two standards and the calculation is applied after blank and O17 corrections. For argument sake d13C (USGS41 meas) = +47.58 per mil Correction factor = d13C(flour) - d13C(USGS41 real) -------------------------------- d13C(flour) - d13C(USGS41 meas) = -25.34 - 37.76)/(-25.34 - 47.58) = 0.86 Now apply this to your sample measurement d13C(sample corr) = ((d13C(flour)-d13C(sample meas)) x 0.86) + d13C(flour) To check to see if this is working I also apply the correction to a Sucrose ANU aka IAEA-CH6 sample that is run with each batch. I find this approach works for me every if I ensure the amount carbon in each sample and ref is very similar, otherwise you then need to worry about linearity effects. Some references you may wish to look at are; Bohlke, J.K. & Coplen, T.B. (1993) "Interlaboratory Comparison of Reference Materials for Nitrogen-Isotopes for Nitrogen-Isotope-Ratio Measurements" 51-66, in References and Intercomparison Materials for Stable Isotopes of Light Elements (IAEA-TECDOC-825). Coplen, T.B. (1988). Normalization of Oxygen and Hydrogen Isotope Data", Chemical Geology, 72, 293-297 Verkouteren, R.M & Lee, J.N (2001) Web-based Interactive Data Processing: Applications to Stable Isotope Metrology. Fresenius J Anal Chem, 370, 803-810 Hope this helps Jason Jason Tranter Scientific Officer School of Natural Sciences Edith Cowan University 100 Joondalup Drive Joondalup Western Australia Australia 6027 Ph +61 8 6304 5769 Fax +61 8 6304 5842 Email [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Stable Isotope Geochemistry [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Penny Higgins Sent: Saturday, 2 July 2005 3:57 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [ISOGEOCHEM] Correcting to standards - procedure Greetings all, I hope this isn't a totally dumb question. What seemed pretty straight-forward to me has become a large discussion in our lab. Maybe I've been doing this wrong all along - I just want to be sure. We're running carbonate samples for d13C and d18O on a gasbench connected to a DeltaPlus XP. NBS-19 is the standard we're using. So, I run a bunch of samples with a few NBS-19s tossed in for good measure. The values for NBS-19 don't come out exactly as specified by Coplen 1994 as d13C = 1.95 and d18O = -2.20. Instead, I get d13C = 1.98 and d18O = -2.22. Ordinarily, I'd just do simple adding or subtracting to all the samples in the run to make the NBS-19s "right." I subtract 0.03 from ALL the d13C values and subtract 0.02 from all the d18O values. My understanding is that then I can report my results as VPDB. I was just told that a more correct way to do it is to calculate the ratio between the real value and the measured value of NBS-19 and multiply that with all of my samples. That is, the ratio of "true" and measured d13C for NBS-19 is 0.986, which I multiply all my d13C values with. The ratio of "true" and measured d18O for NBS-19 is 0.990, and I multiply all my d18O values with that. This second method just seems wrong, because any measured sample near zero would not change. But it makes sense in the sense that everything we are measuring is done in terms of ratios. So, at the risk of wasting bandwidth, which is the correct method? Is there some instances where both methods are required? Am I delusional (it happens)? Stumped, ~Penny ******************************************************************* Dr. Pennilyn Higgins Research Associate "SIREAL" Stable Isotope Ratios in the Environment Analytical Laboratory Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Rochester 227 Hutchison Hall Rochester, NY 14627 [log in to unmask] Office: 209b Hutchison Hall Lab: 209 Hutchison Hall Voice : (585) 275-0601 Outer lab: (585) 273-1405 FAX : (585) 244-5689 Inner lab: (585) 273-1397 http://www.earth.rochester.edu/SIREAL/index.html *******************************************************************