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On Jul 25, 2004, at 11:19 AM, Miguel Naughton wrote:

> --- "Jonathan S. Shefftz" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Specifically, for an AT setup to do double-duty for lift-served
>> Eastern skiing on the groomed, the further the waist strays from
>> the low to mid 60s domain of race skis, the more its grip suffers.
>
> I'm a little surprised by this statement.  Isn't width a plus for
> edge grip, much in the way that lifters give better edging?
> Carving snowboards can slice monster grooves in the snow and I
> should think that wide skis would also have this trait.

Physics is always a PITA...  I was thinking something along the lines
of "you want your weight to be close to the edge to get a lot of
pressure on the edge".  But, isn't it true that the only place your
weight can be is over the edge?  Unless you're falling over, of course.
  If you're balanced, your weight is right above your edges.  Nothing
else is in contact with the snow, so where else could the weight go?

Lifters are to keep you from booting out with extreme edge angles,
right?  Nothing to do with edge grip, or at least nothing directly tied
to edge grip, but if you boot out, your edge grip goes to zero.

Carving snowboards are generally the narrowest snowboards you can buy,
so I'm not sure where you were going with that comparison.

> I'm no expert on this.  I subscribe to the illogic.com philosophy
> of getting cheap older gear on ebay.  I don't demo much, but when
> I have tested the wider stuff, such as Rossignol Bandits, they
> always gripped well (but weren't very quick).

I'd think the quickness is much more a function of width than edge grip
is.

In the snowboard world, the only real concern with width is related to
booting out (toe drag).  A snowboarder will have a stance angle they
like, which will dictate for their boot sole length how wide the board
needs to be underfoot.  Too narrow, and you get toe drag.  Too wide,
and edge to edge gets slow.

As far as width and float goes - I've learned that there's a difference
between plain old side and well shaped.  The Burton fish is not a
"wide" board, it's a very well shaped board: wide nose, narrow waist,
narrow tail, lots of taper, binding mounting position way back of
center.  Wide and close to symmetrical (nose and tail widths about the
same) doesn't work as well, it's better (IMHO) to get the tails to sink
along with the nose floating.  This might be more of an issue with
snowboards and possible nu-skool twintip skis than normal skis...
snowboards have long been made with little to no taper.

--
Jason - "redraobwons"

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