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Oh, gaaard, sorry, boy is my thinking muddled or what!
Thanks for the laugh...
Mandi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Entemann" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Mitchel's Marxism & the Environment talk now on-line


> What do you mean, virus?  It's been scientifically established that the
> cause of AIDS is the alignment of Uranus and Pluto with the earth's
magnetic
> field on the day that one achieves puberty.  I have a residual memory of
> having read that somewhere.  Furthrmore, it's a consequence of quantum
> mechanical tunnelling.
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Mandi Smallhorne <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: Science for the People Discussion List
> <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Mitchel's Marxism & the Environment talk now on-line
> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:16:49 +0200
>
> 'Scuse me for butting in, but down here in the south where the real
coalface
> of the epidemic is, vaccine is not as easily dismissable as pure crap.
(And
> I must say, I find your 'alleged cause of AIDS' comment very telling in
> terms of scientific credibility.)  See
> http://www.saavi.org.za/1press2007.htm for more.
> '"This trial will answer several major scientific issues that face all of
us
> in the field of HIV-vaccine development," said Lawrence Corey, M.D.,
> principal investigator of the HVTN. "It will determine the usefulness of
> vaccines that induce high immune response to the parts of the virus that
are
> similar between different strains of HIV-1."
> 'Investigators for the South Africa vaccine trial will determine if this
> vaccine, which is based on clade B HIV, has the potential to protect
against
> the clade C virus, the subtype prevalent in South Africa.
> 'Additionally, the South African study is likely to provide important new
> data on how the test vaccine might work in a predominantly heterosexual
HIV
> epidemic, how well the vaccine works in women, and whether the vaccine
works
> in populations with pre-existing immunity to the viral vector used in the
> vaccine, according to Corey, who is also head of the Infectious Diseases
> Program and Virology Division at the University of Washington School of
> Medicine.'
> Mandi
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Jonathan Campbell
>    To: [log in to unmask]
>    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:42 PM
>    Subject: Re: Mitchel's Marxism & the Environment talk now on-line
>
>
>    Michael,
>
>          You rant, you rave, but you are the one who makes statements
> without evidence. These are well-known, published materials. Just because
> you don't know about them doesn't make them false.
>
>    1. Death by Medicine, published in Life Extension Magazine, based on
the
> research of Dr. Carolyn Dean and others, and eventually published in the
> book Death by Modern Medicine.
>
>    2. Adult Stem Cells: http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics4.asp
>
>    I would add: the search for the "AIDS vaccine" is pure crap. There is
no
> such thing, because the alleged cause of AIDS (HIV) has never been
isolated
> in quantities. Almost the entire focus of the "AIDS industry" is more
toxic
> drugs such as Nevirapine.
>
>    Finally, it is the isolation of Marxism from practical democratic life
> that tore it to shreds. Lenin, in his fervor to create a socialist state,
> created the mechanism for its destruction and eventually the destruction
of
> every socialist revolution. See Braverman, Labor and Monopoly Capital for
> the explanation.
>
>    Jonathan
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Michael Balter
>      To: [log in to unmask]
>      Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:29 AM
>      Subject: Re: Mitchel's Marxism & the Environment talk now on-line
>
>
>      This post from Jonathan Campbell is an example, to me anyway, of the
> absolute contempt that some so-called leftists have not just for
> science--which could, just perhaps, be justified by the abuses of
> science--but for any standards of evidence whatsoever when it comes to
> argumentation and debate. In other words, first comes the politics, and
then
> the "facts" to back them up. Is this any different from the way the Bush
> administration justified the war in Iraq? Not in my view.
>
>      Let's just take one of Jonathan's statements:
>
>      "Why is it that there is no interest in ADULT stem cells, which
really
> can be
>      obtained easily (from the patient's intestines) and used easily and
>      relatively cheaply to re-grow organs?"
>
>      Every single clause in this sentence is factually incorrect. If it is
> so easy to grow organs from adult stem cells, perhaps Jonathan would like
to
> tell us where this is actually being done.
>
>      As for the pharmaceutical industry, it has a lot to answer for. But
do
> we base our policies on taking the exact opposite position from everything
> it does? How about the attempts to find an AIDS vaccine. Obviously
> pernicious, and must mean that a pure leftist should be for continuing the
> epidemic, right?
>
>      In sum, this is the kind of infantile, ignorant, knee-jerk,
no-nothing
> leftism that has landed the American left in the toilet for the past 30
> years where it will stay until those who want to impress us with how hard
> they work and how tirelessly they engage in the struggle actually get
their
> brains in gear and start acting and thinking in the real world.
>
>      Sorry for the rant, but we had a dream once and too many leftists
have
> turned it into a fantasy with this kind of crap.
>
>      Michael
>
>      www.michaelbalter.com
>
>
>
>      On 2/15/07, Jonathan Campbell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>        The person with chuzpah around here is the Marxist Expert from the
> Columbian
>        White Tower.
>
>        Mitchel at least is at least DOING something good for the world
> (actually
>        many things) and I think his critique of Marxist philosophy with
> regard to
>        capitalist progress is right on the money.
>
>        Louis, here is something to chew on philosophically (I understand
you
> have
>        almost a PhD in this): why are so many extremely wealthy
capitalists
> and
>        capitalist foundations connected to the pharmaceutical industry
> interested
>        in a technology (embryonic stem cells) that is supposed to really
> solve
>        diseases, when the primary business model of the pharmaceutical
> industry is
>        long term illness maintenance, having nothing to do with cures or
> effective
>        curative treatment? Why are prominent leftists lining up as a
> cheering squad
>        along with the capitalists for this new technology?
>
>        Why is it that there is no interest in ADULT stem cells, which
really
> can be
>        obtained easily (from the patient's intestines) and used easily and
>        relatively cheaply to re-grow organs?
>
>        Why is the FDA and the pharmaceutical industry so intent on
> regulating
>        natural supplements (via Codex) when "modern medicine" is the
leading
> cause
>        of death in the US (>650,000 per year) and the leading cause of
> injury
>        (millions per year), while the number of people who have died as a
> result of
>        natural supplements is less than a hundred per year, almost
> exclusively the
>        result of not following the label and/or sheer stupidity.
>
>        Jonathan
>
>        ----- Original Message -----
>        From: "Louis Proyect" <[log in to unmask]>
>        To: < [log in to unmask]>
>        Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:49 PM
>        Subject: Re: Mitchel's Marxism & the Environment talk now on-line
>
>
>        > >Stan Goff has kindly posted the talk I gave on January 26, 2007,
> at
>        > >Bertell Ollman's Marxism Seminar, at
>        >>
>        >>http://stangoff.com/?p=467
>        >>
>        >>You can read the entire talk there -- including the parts that I
> had to
>        >>excise due to time constraints (concerning stem cell research and
> the
>        >>left) and also post your own comments.
>        >>
>        >>Thanx.
>        >>
>        >>Mitchel
>        >
>        > Amazing. Not a single reference to John Bellamy Foster, Paul
> Burkett,
>        > James O'Connor or Mike Davis.
>        >
>        > What chutzpah.
>        >
>        > --
>        >
>        > www.marxmail.org
>        >
>
>
>
>
>      --
>      www.michaelbalter.com
>
>      ******************************************
>      Michael Balter
>      Contributing Correspondent, Science
>      [log in to unmask]
>      ******************************************
>
>
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