----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 1:18
PM
Subject: update on online filing of
PTTR's
The tax department is upgrading their computer system to allow
this to happen. The expected timeframe for online filing is within the next 2
years - Yippee!!
-Bobbi
At 10:27 AM 4/26/2007, you wrote:
Hi Bobbi - Is there
a way we can get this conversation going again? It might also be a
good idea to include a lister?
Susie
Susie
Haughwout
Wilmington Town Clerk
P.O. Box 217
Wilmington, VT
05363
1-802-464-5836 Phone
1-802-464-1238 Fax
[log in to unmask]
- ----- Original Message -----
- From: Bobbi
Brimblecombe
- To: [log in to unmask]
- Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 9:30 AM
- Subject: Re: Signatures on PTTR's
- A few of us clerks met with the tax department
- (last year?) about their plan to have the PTTR's
- filed electronically by the attorneys. The idea
- was that they would fill them out online, pay
- online, and print some sort of acknowledgement
- that they would then submit to us with the deed,
- and the online system would not accept the filing
- without all of the information being filled out,
- including the span # or parcel #. We suggested
- that the acknowledgement look like the form that
- we have now, so we would still get the
- information that we need, minus SSN's. I'm not
- sure where they are in the process, but it can't come a moment too
soon!
- -Bobbi
- At 10:22 AM 4/26/2007, you wrote:
- >Perhaps we can have this discussion over the
- >summer and try to come up with a specific
- >proposal that makes sense. I will work with the
- >clerk's association to find a good time. Deb Markowitz
- >
- >
- >---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
- >From: Annette Cappy <[log in to unmask] >
- >Reply-To: Vermont Municipal Government
- >Discussion Network<[log in to unmask] >
- >Date: Thu,
26 Apr 2007 08:33:41 -0400
- >
- > >Signatures on PTTR'sI agree, Susie. This
- > would be a good time to put some thoughts
- > together to revamp a system that I think has
- > been broken for years! Count me in!
- > >
- > >Annette Cappy
- > >Brattleboro
- > >[log in to unmask]
- > >
- > >
- > > ----- Original Message -----
- > > From: Town of Wilmington
- > > To: [log in to unmask]
- > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 5:46 PM
- > > Subject: Signatures on PTTR's
- > >
- > >
- > > Dear Ann - I also do not sign the PTR
- > acknowledgement, nor do I sign the
- > Acknowledgement stamp that I affix to the
- > deeds. I do not mind indicating the date a PTR
- > came in on the stamp. I do not believe that it
- > is my job to understand everything about
- > certificates and Act 250 Disclosures in order
- > to sign off that all was properly in place at
- > the time of recording. I totally agree that
- > the there should be a place filled in by the
- > attorney/representative indicating what Tax ID
- > number is being transferred. It is also not my
- > job to be able to read a legal description to
- > figure it out. I had this conversation with
- > Charlie Merriman just prior to his leaving PVR,
- > and think it would be a good discussion for
- > some clerks and PVR and perhaps the Sec'y of
- > State to engage in. The system sure needs
- > improving - since it has come up, it seems like
- > now is a good time to address it.
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > > Susie Haughwout
- > > Wilmington Town Clerk
- > > P.O. Box 217
- > > Wilmington, VT 05363
- > > 1-802-464-5836 Phone
- > > 1-802-464-1238 Fax
- > > [log in to unmask]
- > > ----- Original Message -----
- > > From: Ann Webster
- > > To: [log in to unmask]
- > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:43
PM
- > > Subject: Re: Signatures on PTTR's
- > >
- > >
- > > Deb, this sounds like a very good idea to
- > have a letter that states exactly which boxes
- > need to be completed in order for a PTR to be
- > acceptable, but I have a concern that that may
- > be interpreted that any box that is not
- > included in the list may freely be left blank.
- > Blank boxes sometimes create quite a bit of
- > time for a clerk to identify exactly what
- > property is being transferred. We also must
- > deal with the fact that many times information
- > is filled in that turns out to be incorrect,
- > such as mailing address following closing, Box
- > C Property Location, etc. Also, I do not sign
- > the Town Clerk Acknowledgement at the bottom. I
- > complete the information requested, but I do
- > not sign as that seems to be acknowledging that
- > I take responsibility for all required
- > certificates and Act 250 paperwork having been
- > filed. I don't know how I would know that if
- > the section on the back of the form is
- > incomplete. It would also make more sense to
- > have the parcel ID number on the form rather !
- > than in the Town Clerk's section. The clerk
- > should be able to verify that the parcel number
- > appears to be correct rather than trying to
- > identify the property in the first place. It
- > should be made clear at this point if we can
- > accept PTRs without SS# as they are more often
- > left off now than a few years ago. I agree with
- > Linda. Overall when documents are left with us
- > for recording we are typically not allowed to
- > pass judgment regarding the accuracy nor
- > advised to give advice on what someone should do.
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > >
- >
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- > >
- > > From: Vermont Municipal Government
- > Discussion Network [ mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Deborah
Markowitz
- > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:01
PM
- > > To: [log in to unmask]
- > > Subject: Re: Signatures on PTTR's
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > > Hi all, The town clerks may only
accept
- > PTRs that are "complete and regular on their
- > face." Over the years the tax department has
- > "clarified" what this means. For example, at
- > one time the department indicated that clerks
- > needed to send back the documents when they did
- > not include social security numbers. I have
- > suggested to Susan that she write up a formal
- > memo setting out the department's
- > interpretation of this language so that clerks
- > all know what is required and so that clerks
- > can send a copy of the memo with the returned
- > documents to the attorneys. I will also be
- > happy to send the memo to the bar association
- > so that they might e-mail it out to the bar as fair
warning. Deb
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > > Deborah Markowitz
- > >
- > > Secretary of State
- > >
- > > 26 Terrace Street
- > >
- > > Montpelier, Vermont 05602
- > >
- > > 802-828-2148
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > >
- >
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- > >
- > > From: Vermont Municipal Government
- > Discussion Network
- > [
mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda L. Spence, CMC/CVC
- > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 12:09
PM
- > > To: [log in to unmask]
- > > Subject: Re: Signatures on PTTR's
- > >
- > > Perhaps, if Deb Markowitz is watching this
- > conversation, she could "chime in" on this. I
- > still maintain that is not the statutory duty
- > of Town Clerks to monitor what the attorneys
- > are or are not filling in on the PTRs. Linda
- > >
- > > ----- Original Message
-----
- > >
- > > From: Monte, Suzanne
- > >
- > > To: [log in to unmask]
- > >
- > > Sent: Wednesday, April 25,
2007 10:54 AM
- > >
- > > Subject: Re: Signatures on
PTTR's
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > > While all of the information
requested
- > on the PTR is useful and we encourage parties
- > to fill in all the boxes and blanks, we
- > recognize that refusing a PTR is an extreme and
- > time-consuming measure not to be taken lightly.
- > >
- > > Sections 9606 and 9608 of
Title 32
- > require a PTR to include the following:
- > signatures of the parties or their legal
- > representatives, the basis for any exemption
- > claimed, the true value of the property
- > transferred, such information as the
- > commissioner may reasonably require for proper
- > administration of the transfer tax, and certain
- > information regarding local and state permits and Act 250
certificates.
- > >
- > > What does this means on the
PTR itself
- > for it to be considered "complete and regular
- > on its face" as required by 32 V.S.A. §9607?
- > The following sections must be completed:
- > Sections A and B (including social security
- > numbers); C; L or M through P; the section
- > entitled "Local and State Permits and Act 250
- > Certificates"; and the parties must sign the
- > form (signature of preparer is not required).
- > If the property is enrolled in the current use
- > program, Section K must also be filled in to comply with 32
V.S.A. §3757(e).
- > >
- > > Social security numbers are
required for
- > the administration of the transfer tax and must
- > be included on the copy of the PTR filed with
- > the Tax Department. SSNs should be blacked-out
- > on the copy of the PTR filed in the land records.
- > >
- > > Suzanne
- > >
- > > Suzanne M. Monte
- > > Assistant Attorney General
- > > Vermont Department of
Taxes,
- > > Division of Property Valuation
and Review
- > > P.O. Box 429
- > > Montpelier, VT
05601-0429
- > > Phone: (802) 828-2731
- > > Fax: (802) 828-5873
- > > [log in to unmask]
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > >
- > >
- >
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
- > >
- > > From: Vermont Municipal
Government
