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G'day Wolfram and others,
Thanks for the advice. Yes I agree that using any solvents would be of some consequence. 
Thankyou for the literature, it has sparked some great discussions here at AIMS. It looks like this instrument will bring the biologists and chemists closer together, which cant be a bad thing!!!!!!

Cheers

cath


Catherine Pratt, Ph.D
AIMS/CDU Research Fellow
Arafura Timor Sea Research Facility (ATRF)
23 Ellengowan Dve, Brinkin Darwin
N.T. Australia 0909 PO Box 40197
Ph:   (08) 8920 9251
Fax:  (08) 8920 9988


-----Original Message-----
From: Stable Isotope Geochemistry [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wolfram Meier-Augenstein
Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2007 17:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ISOGEOCHEM] Impact of formaldehyde/alcohol on biological tissue

Hi Cath,


I haven't looked at quantifying the magnitude of any effect on sample d13C-values use of solvents/reagents such as DMSO, formaldehyde, EtOH or acetone may have myself simply for the reason that I have learned from structure analysis work (MS, NMR, IR) of semiochemicals (e.g. pheromones) in my pre-isotope life that using such solvents almost always leads to artefact formation.

EtOH is probably the least "dangerous" solvent (though one should still check things out). Depending on functionalities present, introduction of an ethoxy group requires either acidic or alkaline conditions.

All the other solvents you name (plus acetone) quite happily react at the drop of a hat. DMSO is capable of oxidising primary and secondary alcohols to their corresponding aldehydes and ketones, respectively.

Formaldehyde and acetone are so reactive they react quite happily with themselves under alkaline catalysis; 2 molecules of formaldehyde "disproportionate" into formic acid and MeOH while two molecules of acetone form diacetone alcohol (which can react further to mesityl oxide by eliminating water).

Also, formaldehyde is a powerful methylene group (CH2) donor, which is exactly what Zach's paper shows.

So, my tuppence worth would be to avoid using reactive solvents if at all possible; failing that make sure you know what the effect is (if any) and if it can  / needs to be corrected for.


Best wishes,

Wolfram


-----Original Message-----
From: Stable Isotope Geochemistry [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Catherine Pratt
Sent: 28 August 2007 03:46
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ISOGEOCHEM] Impact of formaldehyde/alcohol on biogenic carbonates

G'day,

Wow thanks for that Zachery.

We still want to look at DMSO and bleaching effects on vertebrae?

Is there anyone that you may know of that's looked into this?

Cheers

cath




Catherine Pratt, Ph.D
AIMS/CDU Research Fellow
Arafura Timor Sea Research Facility (ATRF)
23 Ellengowan Dve, Brinkin Darwin
N.T. Australia 0909 PO Box 40197
Ph:   (08) 8920 9251
Fax:  (08) 8920 9988


-----Original Message-----
From: Stable Isotope Geochemistry [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Zachary D Sharp
Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2007 11:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ISOGEOCHEM] Impact of formaldehyde/alcohol on biogenic carbonates

Regarding impact of formaldehyde on isotope tissue, see

http://epswww.unm.edu/facstaff/zsharp/edwards.pdf

Sincerely,

Zach


On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:38:16 +0930
  Catherine Pratt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear List members,
> I would also like to know if there is any recent knowledge/literature 
>on the impact of EtOH, DMSO, and formaldehyde on isotope signatures in 
>animal tissues.
>Specifically on fish/shark tissue.
>
> If not I am setting up an experiment to do so.
>
> I have recently set-up an IRMS at the Australian Institute of Marine 
>Science in Darwin Australia.
>
> Cheers
>
> catherine
>
>
> Catherine Pratt, Ph.D
> AIMS/CDU Research Fellow
> Arafura Timor Sea Research Facility (ATRF)
> 23 Ellengowan Dve, Brinkin Darwin
> N.T. Australia 0909 PO Box 40197
> Ph:   (08) 8920 9251
>Fax:  (08) 8920 9988
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: Stable Isotope Geochemistry
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 
>[log in to unmask]
> Sent: Monday, 27 August 2007 23:15
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ISOGEOCHEM] Impact of formaldehyde/alcohol on biogenic 
>carbonates
>
> Laura, I will check on the status of a paper local prof working on.
>There is a problem with preservatives and otoliths.
> Bob
>
>>
>> Dear List members,
>>
>> Does anyone have any experience or know of any literature which 
>>discusses the impact of using biological preservation fluids such as 
>>formaldehyde/alcohol on the geochemistry of biogenic carbonates (trace 
>>elements and/or isotopes).
>>
>> Thank you in advance.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Laura
>>
>> Laura Foster
>> Leibniz-Institut für Meereswissenschaften IFM-GEOMAR Dienstgebäude 
>>Ostufer Wischhofstr. 1-3
>> 24148 Kiel
>> Germany
>>
>> Telephone: +49 (0)431 600-2109
>> Fax:+49 (0)431 600-2805
>>
>>
>>
>>