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I object to putting Jim West on moderation.

His posts are civil and seek coherent information, and challenge the official views when they seem contradictory or not comprehensive. I also note, Michael, that you are a participant in one side of this discussion.

Frankly, I've received offlist messages from list  members who feel this is an important issue, thanking me and Jim for raising them.

No to censorship! 

But  if  there's gonna be censorship, I have at least one lucky winner in mind. And it's not Jim.

Mitchel



-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael H Goldhaber <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Aug 1, 2008 3:02 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Non-HIV Topic: "Isolation doesn't exist"
>
>Jim,
>
>I asked you and others to stop posting on this topic. It is quite  
>clear to me that no evidence will persuade you. Likewise, you will not  
>persuade most of us. If you post again on this, unless other list  
>members object, I will moderate all your posts and remove those on  
>this topic. That will delay all your posts, as I cannot be constantly  
>monitoring.
>
>Michael
>-------
>Michael H. Goldhaber
>SftP list moderator
>
>
>On Aug 1, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Jim West wrote:
>
>> Michael Goldhaber;
>>
>> You write:
>>
>> "Isolating an bioactive agent merely means being able to culture it
>> from infected tissue, that is grow it in more or less pure form, then
>> detect the agent , say by electron microscopy and then use it to
>> transmit the infection in some way."
>>
>> My response:
>>
>> "More or less pure" ??  That would mean the resulting observations  
>> would be
>> "more or less pure".   In the case of many viruses, the virus is  
>> virtually
>> undetectable in the "pure strain".
>>
>> Inspired by definition of "isolating a bioactive agent", I have  
>> looked up a
>> standard definition for "isolate" and it is contradicts you, unless  
>> you are
>> accenting your phrase, "less pure".
>>
>> "Isolate: A sample from a defined source." -- Roger Hull, Fred  
>> Brown, Chris
>> Payne, Virology: Directory and Dictionary of Animal, Bacterial, and  
>> Plant
>> Viruses (1989)
>>
>> Not very precise.  That could mean "mud from a pond".
>>
>> Virus "isolation" seems to be a great... semantic achievement.
>>
>> Jim West
>> www.geocities.com/noxot
>>
>> =====
>> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:26:31 -0700, Michael H Goldhaber <[log in to unmask] 
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> 1. Isolating an bioactive agent merely means being able to culture it
>>> from infected tissue, that is grow it in more or less pure form, then
>>> detect the agent , say by electron microscopy and then use it to
>>> transmit the infection in some way. For anyone genuinely  interested,
>>> I am sure any textbook on infectious diseases would explain this.  
>>> Such
>>> books can be found in any medical library, and probably in any
>>> hospital library.
>>>
>>> 2. Likewise there are books and journals devoted to HIV/AIDs by now
>>> that surely would provide numerous references to the isolation of the
>>> virus in many different laboratories.
>>>
>>> 3. If you read further down the reference Michael Balter provided you
>>> will see citations related to isolating HIV from AIDS cases.
>>>
>>> 4. Therefore, I think it is pretty clear that the people questioning
>>> the HIV hypothesis do not want to be enlightened on this subject, and
>>> are  finding utterly fake reasons to  continue to argue.
>>>
>>> 5. So please drop the subject. It is phony.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>> -------
>>> Michael H. Goldhaber
>>> SftP list moderator
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>