I suspect there's truth to both positions. BSA members and leaders could pick up lots of trash and emphasize Leave No Trace but at the same time unnecessarily damage environment through its practices. Re: Nathan's point about kids and adults doing things without the proper training: while they may be innocent in their intentions, there is no need to accept it. People like TEO and others of us who know better, could try to work with and/or join the BSA to make sure that well-intentioned BSA youth and adult leaders do better.

As for the inescapable damage of large groups, perhaps those groups could be divided into smaller ones? Or visit areas less susceptible to the impacts of large groups.

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Nathan Bryant <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
That's pretty clueless, but you can't pin the blame on the organization itself. That sort of stupidity is all on the troops & troop leaders. Plenty of troops are competent, some are not, just remember this when composing your expectations: these troops are composed of everyday kids & their dads who just one day decide to go do something "cool" w/o seeking training first. Can't fault them for being what they are as long as the result is not a disaster.

I guess it is good that they get kids away from TVs, computers, and
video games, and get them to spend time in the outdoors, but they
continue to pass down practices that are out-dated by thirty years and
destroy that environment that they are trying to enjoy.

The Troop Leaders of Boyscouts of America need to educate themselves
in tolerance and leave-no-trace practices.  Until then, they do more
harm than good.
Frankly, these comments display deep ignorance and intolerance, Matt. The Scouts, as a whole, are VERY BIG on Leave No Trace principles. As a Scout I spent countless hours picking up other people's trash. They do indeed take larger groups into the outdoors but that is the nature of the beast.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SkiVt-L is brought to you by the University of Vermont.

To unsubscribe, visit