Sonya's asleep, Amy had to work all night, and I was caught up with my grading of math tests, so I took the time to respond to some stuff:

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 3:04 PM, William Davis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>The zone he is describing is hardly unknown and not exactly on land owned by  anybody on this list.  

Actually, I am one of the landowners.

>Is that really worse than posting >descriptions of   beautiful, powder filled glades and not sharing with the people you post the  reports to?

To many of us, yes, but the argument is moot.  The BC skiers of this list share pretty freely, in person.  On-line, we share general info and good times.

>  Jay, I hope you have many wonderful days in the backcountry and enjoy them   with a pure spirit, even if there are other kindred souls in the woods seeking the same.

Hear, hear.

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Brian Waters <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Jay's route is outlined in much detail in David Goodman's publicly-available book. So I don't think there's much of a problem with this post, in particular.

At the point where he left the Monroe trail, he could have limited a few small specific details, left out the map, ended up with a quality TR  and there would be ZERO problems with the post.

>    Secondly, I'd like the take the opportunity to once again express the disappointment that I feel that a bunch of skiers like us can't just share some fun-finding information with each other.

We can and do.  Just not over the internet.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Tag <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>For years conservationists have  realized that the way you protect wilderness is to expose people to it. Let  them know what's out there and what the experience is like even if they can't experience it themselves.

Tag, in the last 15 years that tide has started to shift, as the realization has been made that our wild lands are being loved to death.  I'd post citations, but I've too much else to respond to here.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Leigh Daboll <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> why would you even want to give a flying c**p about what someone else's personal motivation may or may not be in this regard?

The motivation of every BC skier I've ever met is simple: powder.  Tell 1000's where the powder is and there is that much less of it.  Yes, it's  selfish.  But that selfishness doesn't affect other's experience, and so I can live with it.  I think the rest of you can all be as selfish as you want; just be mindful about your impact on others.

Leigh, IIRC, you also commented on your preference of posts with pics and maps over posts with descriptive words(I can't find the specific comment right now).  You've been a member of this list since before I started lurking in 2000.  How did you ever find enjoyment from the list in those days when so few pictures were posted?  Could it be you're a closet lover of poetry?  ;-)

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Jeremy Malczyk <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Your supply can meet the demand

Except that it's much more risky to create supply these days.  And demand is much higher since Jerm left VT.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Brian Waters <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>climber's aren't hiding anything. We're very open with our information.

That's because if you keep it secret, the moss and lichen grows back on the climb within a year, degrading the quality of the climbing.  The skier's dilemma is the converse of the climber's.

>Climbers share, and they have a thriving community here in Vermont.

Mostly, it rotates every 4 years, as the college kids come and go.  The list of locals that have been deeply involved for all of the last decade probably numbers less than 30.  I can't name more than about a dozen.

>It's even got a hierarchy of experienced climbers who share their skills and their favorite places with less experienced folk. We're ages from that here in the skiing world.

Hmmm, so what does that say about the 2 dozen or so people on this list that I've skied the backcountry with?   With ages ranging from early 20's to mid-60's?

>Personally, I have no BC ski community - I grab my skis and go, and if >I'm lucky, one of my close friends will come along for the ride. This list >is the closest thing I've got, and I haven't skied with any of you, ever.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but have you considered that it might be because of your stance on public dissemination of information?





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