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I have to chime in on this one, many schools level funded or cut their 
budgets and their state set taxes went up!
Hear of any that went down???
Mert


Town Clerk wrote:
> Dave,
> 	The state now tells us what our education rate is, so, there is no
> local control.  Last year we level funded our school budget but the
> education rate went up 7%!  Go figure!
>
> 	You can always justify government control over every aspect of daily
> life under the guise of "We're going to make everything equal for
> everybody."  Kind of like Animal Farm - "All animals are equal, but some are
> more equal than others." 
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vermont Municipal Government Discussion Network
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dave Sharpe
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Education Rebates
>
> If it were a flat tax of say 1.5% perhaps what little control over
> local spending would be gone since there would be no escalator for
> increased spending as there is now in the income sensitivity
> provisions and the penny rate for calculating property taxes. Would
> the state then tell each community how much they could spend per
> student based on tax receipts in income tax? How would this be
> supported by local communities? Would this number go up and down
> depending upon tax receipts so in flush years the schools would have
> to save for lean years?
>
>
>   
>> Dave,
>>
>> 	Another reason might be that a line on the income tax form for 1 or
>> 1.5 % of the adjusted gross income and dedicated solely to education
>> would
>> be easy and simple.  And we all know that no government body is ever
>> capable
>> of doing things the easy way or in a manner that would make any
>> sense (at
>> least to the average person).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vermont Municipal Government Discussion Network
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dave Sharpe
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:24 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Education Rebates
>>
>> I am NOT saying that those individuals with incomes over $250,000
>> shouldn't pay more in income taxes. I am reporting that is one
>> critical part of why the bill died in the legislature. Speaker Shap
>> Smith was on the committee that brought the bill to the floor,
>> however, both Governor Dean and Governor Douglas have been firmly
>> against an income tax based education funding mechanism.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>     
>>> Dave,
>>> 	RE the income tax part of your answer.  Are you saying that
>>> people
>>> who earn more than 250,000 shouldn't have to pay more income
>>> taxes??????????
>>> The poor babies!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vermont Municipal Government Discussion Network
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dave Sharpe
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:27 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Education Rebates
>>>
>>> I have some concern that the education financing system that we
>>> have, though flawed, is not well understood and is being judged
>>> based on misinformation. I hope someone from the tax department
>>> will
>>> make the effort to offer a better explanation than I can offer.
>>>
>>> I would like to offer a couple of points, however. First, second
>>> homes or any other non-residential property is not eligible for
>>> income sensitivity, only one's residence. Secondly, in order to
>>> receive a income credit on one's residence one needs to file an
>>> income tax return, that is how the credit is calculated. To behave
>>> otherwise is tax fraud.
>>>
>>> The criticisms regarding the preferential treatment of those
>>> households who live in homes of relative high value relative to
>>> their income DO get a more substantial credit than the same
>>> household living in a home of low value relative to their income.
>>> Additionally, the criticisms regarding the asset value some
>>> taxpayers have accumulated have some validity and the
>>> administration
>>> and legislature have worked over the last several years to address
>>> this situation. It does make one pause to wonder if these
>>> individuals are paying their fair share of INCOME taxes
>>> considering
>>> the income sensitivity calculation is based on a higher income
>>> calculation than these individuals are paying their income tax on.
>>> These problems do tend to make those of us who are frugal and play
>>> by the rules somewhat resentful of those that game the system.
>>>
>>> One of the difficulties that continues to bother me is how does a
>>> tax system differentiate between the household living in a half
>>> million dollar home with a $450K mortgage and the retired couple
>>> that has paid off their home which has increased in value over the
>>> years so it is now worth a half million yet they have no mortgage.
>>>
>>> The concept of a simple income tax system has been debated over
>>> the
>>> years and has not garnered enough support in either the various
>>> administrations or the legislative bodies primarily because of the
>>> significant increase in taxes that would be collected from the
>>> households earning more than $250,000.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Rep. Dave Sharpe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I have to agree with Lisa regarding this broken system.  In
>>>> Groton
>>>> we also have people with $300,000 - $500,000++ homes on our lakes
>>>> (several of which are 2nd homes to boot!) and they receive large
>>>> education tax payments.  I'm willing to bet the payments are MOST
>>>> likely not due to income taxes overpaid.
>>>> If you can't afford the taxes on these homes then maybe you
>>>> shouldn't own them?  And certainly should not be owning multiple
>>>> homes and receiving this help.
>>>> I lived on our largest lake for 14 years and when the taxes got
>>>> higher than what we felt we wanted to pay we sold the home and
>>>> moved
>>>> off the lake.  Darn, if we had stayed, with this system in place
>>>> now
>>>> and my menial income from the Town, my education tax payment
>>>> credit
>>>> would be huge and all the other residents would be paying my
>>>> taxes!
>>>> Poor timing on my part I guess lol. But I sleep well at
>>>> night......
>>>>
>>>> Roberta Dana
>>>> Town Treasurer & Tax Collector
>>>> Groton, VT
>>>> 802-584-3131
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>   From: St. Albans Town Assistant Clerk
>>>>   To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>   Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:25 AM
>>>>   Subject: Re: Education Rebates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Also, mobile home owners who own the home but rent the land,
>>>> get
>>>> a
>>>> renters rebate on top of the tax rebate, often getting more
>>>> rebate
>>>> than owed. these don't bother me so much as the general rule is
>>>> that they are elderly on fixed incomes and need every break they
>>>> can get. the example below must be they have no reportable income
>>>> which makes the rebate much higher.
>>>>
>>>>   i feel this whole program/system is broken. i'm seeing very
>>>> well
>>>> off people with $500,000 homes, who own prominent businesses,
>>>> getting taxed for $8000.00 to $10,000.00 and the state rebates
>>>> all
>>>> but 1-2 thousand of it. so the people who only bought a
>>>> $160,000.00 house, with obviously less income.... being mindful
>>>> of
>>>> the high taxes a more expensive house is going to have, gets
>>>> about
>>>> 700.00 rebated.  so the person being the most financially
>>>> responsible loses out, and ends up paying more taxes to the town
>>>> than the one that owns the mansion!!  go figure.
>>>>
>>>>   Lisa  Assistant Town Clerk
>>>>    [log in to unmask]
>>>>
>>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>>     From: Grace, Mary Jane
>>>>     To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>     Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 07:51
>>>>     Subject: Re: Education Rebates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     There can be a few reasons. Perhaps the individual included
>>>> some
>>>> income tax refund money.  Maybe the relative assessed value of
>>>> the property changed considerably from the previous year.  Was
>>>> the town reappraised this year.  It's possible the parcel was
>>>> over-assessed previously relative to other properties in town.
>>>> Maybe the effective tax rate changed considerably from the
>>>> previous year.  The income sensitivity payment is a "look-back."
>>>>  It uses the previous year's income, assessment and taxes.  You
>>>> have to look at all those pieces.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Mary Jane Grace, Program Technician
>>>>
>>>>     Property Valuation and Review Division
>>>>
>>>>     Vermont Dept. of Taxes
>>>>
>>>>     802-828-5863
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     From: Vermont Municipal Government Discussion Network
>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Town Clerk
>>>>     Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 3:54 PM
>>>>     To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>     Subject: Education Rebates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Hi All!
>>>>
>>>>                 I know this question has been asked before, but
>>>> for
>>>> the life of me I can't recall any of the answers
>>>> that have been given.
>>>>
>>>>     Here's the situation:  a property owner has a non taxable
>>>> income, files an HS122 and gets an income sensitivity refund
>>>> greater than his actual property tax, so, we send him a check
>>>> for the difference.
>>>>
>>>>                 How is it possible for someone to get a "refund"
>>>> greater than what they owe?  Does it seem right that
>>>> some tax payers are not only supplementing the
>>>> entire property tax of others, but also giving them
>>>> extra?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>       
>>     
>
>
>