I was just trying to point out the absurdity of Carrol's suggestions, but Stuart obviously doesn't see it that way. That's his right, of course.

But say what you will about Lenin, he knew when to pick his fights and when not to. That's something today's socialists should emulate.


On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Stuart Newman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Sorry, the respnse below was accidentially appended to the wrong post.


On Sat, 7 May 2011 10:00:43 +0200, Michael Balter
>Carrol says: "We condemn the U.S. murder of Bin Laden. We put that in
>statements by whatever local organization we have. We put it in
letters to
>the editor. We proclaim it on every opportunity."
>Should we carry signs with photos of Bin Laden when we march in
>Just asking.
>On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Carrol Cox <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> I think there is another perspective on this which, if taken seriously,
>> makes these questions irrelevant. That perspective, in a word, is
>> Now I tend to be fundamentally pessimistic, but there are times
when the
>> optimism of the will reduces the pessimism of the intellect to an
>> irrelevancy. There has been a change in the political atmosphere: it
>> fizzle out; this long interim of left irrelevancy may have longer to
go. But
>> perhaps not; perhaps the change is real and a fuse has been lit. My
>> slogan in such a context is, Defeats are defeats, we live with them.
>> when we are successful _and not prepared to build on that
success,THAT is
>> unacceptable. The complex of events and responses I summarize
under the head
>> of "Wisconsin," may constitute the sort of success that must be
built on.
>> And so the question of mass organization comes to the fore,
>> the questions Michael
>> asks here.
>> And from that perspective, from the perspective of local organizing,
I do
>> not think there is or should be any real debate. We condemn the
U.S. murder
>> of Bin Laden. We put that in statements by whatever local
organization we
>> have. We put it in letters to the editor. We proclaim it on every
>> opportunity. We urge our members to urge their friends to see the
>> through this outrageous murder. We compare it to - no we identify it
>> the murder of Diem & Lumumba, the kidnapping of Noriega, the
hanging of
>> Sadaam, the overthrow of Mossedegh. We engage those who
respond in
>> conversation of what it means for a state to engage as a standard
>> the assassination of heads of states or of any person who is an
>> This is not difficult. Organizing consist in first reaching those who
>> already agree with us - those who honk their horns as they pass by
>> monthly demo. We incorporate them and move them to see the
need for popular
>> action. We look at the Bin Laden murder strictly from this point of
view. IF
>> our movement grows, if more and more people come to agree with
LBJ that if
>> you want to understand US policies abroad, look at US policies at
>> Bingo! Already the  Bin Laden murder is linked to, is part of the same
>> pattern as, the Austerity Drive against which Wisconsin revolted.
>> O.K. This leads in innumerable directions which can only be sorted
>> through democratic discussion within movement groups, at teach-
ins, at
>> rallies. Neither one person nor a few can work out what is to be
done -
>> beyond the necessity of reaching and enlarging that core which can
begin the
>> necessary discussion. That will bring us back to some of the matters
>> discusses. The masses and not merely intellectuals do, once ignited,
want to
>> know.
>> Let us begin. Each in his/her place.
>> Carrol
>> Stuart, et al., [clip]
>Michael Balter
>Contributing Correspondent, Science
>Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
>New York University
>Email:  [log in to unmask]
>Web:    michaelbalter.com
>NYU:    journalism.nyu.edu/faculty/michael-balter/
>"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why
the poor
>have no food, they call me a Communist." -- H�lder Pessoa C�mara

Michael Balter
Contributing Correspondent, Science
Adjunct Professor of Journalism,
New York University

Email:  [log in to unmask]
Web:    michaelbalter.com
NYU:    journalism.nyu.edu/faculty/michael-balter/

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist." -- Hélder Pessoa Câmara