Roger, you should know by know that I have no issues with the skiers themselves and count many of them as good friends.
But the mindset that I described is very real (or, like it or not, is it absolutely, positively perceived as being real) when for many years it's been posted  in the manner/format/content as it has always been.  Jeez, after years of shutting down and slagging the information posters and seekers- who'd a thunkit?
That simply does NOT happen out west.  I can jump on any of several forums (heck, even google earth for that matter) and score all the detailed information I want.  Spare me the "it's all about safety in the backcountry argument" .  If that was the case, the carnage in the Wasatch or in Rogers Pass alone would be front page news all winter.
Nope, it seems mainly all about this ethereal "worthiness" argument, aka "preserve my line(s)"


From: Vermont Skiing Discussion and Snow Reports [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of roger Klinger
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 7:18 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [SKIVT-L] The Magic Door into the VT-BC

Enough hijacking of Denis' thread, so I changed the title..

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 3:55 PM, David Guertin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
On 03/07/2013 03:37 PM, Leigh Daboll wrote:
The real rationale behind the super-secret eastern backcountry mindset is actually this:
No, it isn't. Your guesses are fairly far off the mark.

Dave G.

What Dave said.

The real rationale has been posted here before;  look it up.  Leigh, I'm curious why you think you know the real rationale and why you think it is different than what has been stated on this list .  AFAIK, you haven't spent a day in the VT-BC with any of us in 10 years.  And I know that those of us in the "behind the mindset" group that have spent days  with you on Western trips don't subscribe to your "rationale".  I'm not trying to put down your perspective; just suggesting that you seem to be incorrect about what ours is.

Bruno wrote:
>J-Spin may have been discouraged by the criticism from Roger K and >others for posting gps coordinates and too many specifics. They were >none-too-kind and came across poorly in my flatlander opinion

FWIW, I had conversations on the list and backchannel with J-Spin, inviting him to a day of showing him my stash, while having a chance to talk it out, under the condition that he not share the location of my stash on a public forum.  He turned me down.  I'd quote the specific reasons, but I no longer have access to that hotmail account to look it up, but it was basically to the effect that he was happy sticking with his crew of buddies that had a similar mindset.  That said, a quick glance at my old e-mails reveals many cordial conversations that we had about other topics.  So I'd like to think our disagreements didn't chase him off.

I'd also like to point out that I have always invited anyone to join me(there are several other listers who have debated "secrets" with me, and I have invited them all, and they have turned me down, while continuing to complain about secret stashes afterwards).  I keep  no secrets from anyone who wants to spend time out in the hills with me.  My secrets are only from the lurkers who have no input into this community.

Scott D wrote:
>Here's my list of reasons why this list ain't what it used to be:
>List ... skcid.
>List ... sdaehskcid.
>Local ...isolationism.

Guilty as charged?  Maybe(after all, I am a misanthrope from Brooklyn), but the first 2 existed on the list long before I got here, and some of those are gone, and the third really just means that private stashes don't get written up.

That said, there are plenty of old listers who mostly ski resorts and rarely post anymore, including the Grand Poobah.  I'd like to suggest that the change in the list is probably due to the old guard moving on/having less time, and the new kids going to flashier venues.

Anyone want to join me at a "private" stash in the bc on Saturday?

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