So we've settled it at 3-1. A tablet, chromebook, laptop for each student.

We didn't discuss cell phone plans at schools for students yet ; )



On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Elizabeth McCarthy <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
​Chromebooks and GAFE have evolved over the past year where most of the Google Apps will work offline as long as you sync. As far as video editing, WeVideo seems to be working on that end as well, ​they have a basic WeVideo Next Chrome web app which work offline. As I said it's their basic editor only (Storyboard) https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/wevideo-next/limlkeaboocfcfncjkkghclkjidbedem

But I imagine they are working on getting their full editors to sync and work offline as well. I also wonder how often that need for offline access will remain given the fact that the majority of students/adults do have online access and that is something I would expect will improve in the coming year. 

Elizabeth McCarthy, MAT
Digital Learning Specialist
Google Education Trainer


On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Jennifer Burton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
One of my concerns in the Great Device Debate is usability offline. We have a lot of students who do not have Internet access at home. While there are alternatives to things like iMovie for the Chromebook that are web-based, they aren't usable without access. For this reason we are shying away from Chromebooks.

On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Lucie deLaBruere <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Steve's comment about "none of this" addresses students,  prompted me to chime in and ask a question  related to  student use.   How important is it if our 'less expensive" Chromebooks can do 80% of the work we want and not the 20% of our student outcomes that fall under the heading of Creativity?"  

To me this is huge!  And because I like to consider myself Cross Platform, I am always looking for solutions for the "school"  or "students" that have access to each platform.  I have a Mac, Chromebook, Windows machine, iPad and Android tablet within reach so I can keep trying different workflows based on what the students or teachers I am working with have available. 

When we look at a MacBook and Chromebook  are we comparing only the hardware? Does the comparison change a bit when we add some creativity tools to the Chromebook?  What are the creativity tools available for the Chromebook?  In order to try to answer that question  I have started this Google Presentation so we can crowdsource the answer to that.  Please add to it: 


 We all know that Macbooks come with iMovie and other great time tested  creativity tools. 
When I give students a Chromebook, I would hope that I also provide that students with some creativity apps.  If we were to add some "Creativity tools"  like We Video EDU  to the Chromebook,  would it help bridge some of the gaps between the Chromebook and Macbook.  

I often hear teachers say that their schools will only consider FREE APPS. Are we willing to throw a few bucks into the pot to provide our Chromebook users with some Creativity tools and move 80% up to.... 90%? 

 For example, while We Video does offer a free version, the PRO version allows Green Screen and many other increased features.   I do not want to start a We Video vs. iMovie discussion (that's not the point).    I just want to see if we can add "not dismiss"  our Chromebook users as the ones who won't have access to Creativity tools and say we are willing to "give up" that functionality.

Hope you'll add to the Slides here if you have some suggestions


Disclaimer about my use:

When I taught in a school that had "no resources"  we learned all I could about Linux and open source software and had a dual boot machine.  I refused to use a Mac while I was there  and believed in  "eat your own dogfood" 

When I worked in a school that went iPad 1:1  I spent all my time looking for creativity tools so that the iPad use went beyond consumption. 

When I started to work with teachers who had Androids,  I started to look for solutions for those users.  There were few at the time, but developers are finally starting to port their apps to Android so that is improving.

When I work with students and teachers who are Chromebook schools, I want to have workflows that will work for them on their Chromebook so I reach for my Chromebook.

A few years ago, I MADE myself buy a Macbook so I could get better that supporting the students and teachers I worked with who had Macbooks.  Forcing myself to use my Macbook was challenging at first, but NOW I love it.  (mostly because of the SOLID keyboard and display is easier on my aging eyes)  But most of my work is in the cloud,  so any machine with a good keyboard and display would probably meet that requirements here.  

I do have a 'couple'  uses that would not be able to be met with a Chromebook -- but don't require a MacBook, it just happens to be what I have now. These are 
Current work in the maker ed movement (ie. plugging in Arduino boards)  or my 3D printer software.
Sometimes I need to export a HIGH RESOLUTION image and have not figured out how to get a 300 dpi image off a Chromebook. 
 Some Webinars using Blackboard Collaborate etc.
and a few time when someone sends me an non compatible file that needs
and lastly... I must admit that I LOVE Camtasia Studio, and even though I can do most Screencasting on Chromebook,  there are times I resort back to the high quality (and fairly expensive screencasting software for a slightly more polished look)  












On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Matt Henchen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Thanks for your contributions Raymond and Steve.  I think everyone in this thread has given schools a good amount of information to chew on.  Good stuff!

Thanks again everybody.  

On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Steve Ligett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Matt - I haven't contributed to this discussion because I have little objective information to add. However, it sounds like you're also looking for subjective thoughts, so...

I own an Acer C720 Chromebook and a MacBook Pro - I purchased both this year for my personal use. I've used Macs ever since Apple brought prototypes to Dartmouth in 1983, and I've used Chromebooks for a couple of years. I prefer the larger and better ("retina") screen of my MacBook Pro, but if the Chromebook is closer, I'll generally just reach for that when I have something to do. Most of what I do is Internet-based now - I have Microsoft Office on my Mac, but I don't use it to create new documents, I use Google. I am an Apple fan, and my music and photo libraries keep me tied to the Mac. I expect the MacBook to last 6 years, and the Chromebook to last 3 years (the MacBook cost over 6 times as much as the Chromebook) . For student use, I would be more tempted to purchase a case for the Chromebook than for a MacBook, as the Chromebooks I've used are not as sturdy as a MacBook.

I think the Mac is more elegant, but the value of the Chromebook undeniable. Chromebooks do not have the polish of the Mac - I think that Google is firmly in the "good enough" world - they won't expend the (probably double) effort for elegance. Development (software changes) occur at a rapid pace on the Chromebook. (That may be good or not.) 

When I travel, I carry the Chromebook. If it is lost, broken, or stolen, a) I'm not out much money, and b) there's no data lost. The Chromebook also came with 12 free "Gogo in-flight Internet" passes so while I'm flying, I can use the Chromebook - including printing (to a printer at my house, or my brother's, or at the schools I work in). 

I love the simplicity of managing Chromebooks - I say that the hardest part of managing one is sticking the asset tag on it (then you're done). I use a Ubuntu print server (at school and at home) that supports Macs, Windows, Linux, Chrome, and iOS clients. It works well for all of them, but one day Google broke our Chrome printing, and it took me a bit to figure that out (I had to re-share the printers). We have about 120 Chromebooks at WRVS and we'll buy more next year - we may be at 1-to-1 without  having an explicit "1-to-1 program". 

None of the above directly addresses teaching students (I don't teach in a classroom). I love bits and bytes but Chromebooks are part of the new appliance/black box world. I hope we continue to show kids how to "get their hands dirty" with programming and "making". 

steve

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Matt Henchen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Thanks Larry.  Have you ever owned a Macbook Air?  In fact, is there anybody on this ListServ that has used both a Chromebook and a Macbook Air for an extended period of time?  I'm obviously biased toward a Mac, since that is what I use (although I was a lifetime PC user before coming to my current school).  I am also biased toward Mac because I would love my students to be able to do serious video editing - which is much more difficult on a Chromebook.

I really do appreciate everybody's opinions.  It's been a fascinating discussion.

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Larry Dougher <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Matt,

We purchased the ASUS C200 this summer for three schools for $243 each.  The model the previous school year was the Samsung 303 (brand new at the time) for $249.  We haven't paid more than $269 since the pilot year.  That being said, I budgeted $349 each because there is no telling what will be out in the summer when we build the budget in the fall (4GB, 802.11ac, etc.).

Again, I have used a Chromebook exclusively for almost three years and a Chromebox since the summer and it's weird but I never felt like I had a less functional device.  Again, though I'm not a "kid".

Thanks,

Larry Dougher
Chief Information Officer
Information Technology Services
Windsor Southeast Supervisory Union
127 State Street, Windsor, VT 05089
Email | Google+Twitter | LinkedIn | (802) 674-8336


On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Matt Henchen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
With all due respect Bjorn - your comparison of a $250 Chromebook to a $1200 Macbook is highly misleading.  The best price for a Chromebook right now is around $269 (per Peter Drescher) and the current price for a Macbook Air is $849.  Plus Apple will be signing a contract with the state and will more than likely offer a better price than that.  

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Bjorn Behrendt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I have always been about accessibility.   I personally hate it when k-12 schools teach expensive applications, without also showcasing the free low-cost alternatives.   They may not have as many features, but at least once the class is over (or the student graduates) the student still has access to the tools they learned about in school.

The worst thing we can do for our students it to have them think they can only write a document in MS. Word or edit a photo in Photoshop.  

Handing them a Mac or Windows Laptop with all the bells and whistles, may work well for them while they have access to the resource, but take that away and they are left thinking that to do the same things they need to spend thousands of dollars.   

My personal vote is for accessibility over features.  

As for durability, if a student is going to drop their backpack down some steps, or trip while it is raining and have the device fall in the water I would rather it be a $250 device than a $1200 one.   

Bjorn Behrendt M.Ed ~ Never Stop Learning
   Google Apps For Education Certified Trainer & Administrator
My Sites
 ~ Edlisten.com Educational Podcast
 ~ AskBj.net ~ Online Training and Ed Tech Resources
 ~ VTed.org ~ Vermont's Personal Learning Network

gClassFolders ~ Create Google folders for your class.

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Adam Provost <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
90%... I'd like to enter that debate to see if that number rings true. I think it's overstated.



On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Adam Provost <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hardware durability is crucial. So is usability.

Personally, I much prefer a fully functional laptop for kids within and outside school... that is functional creatively. Schools that encourage that creative use outside school walls go much further. I've seen and visited schools who so severely 'institutionalize' a powerful laptop that it is basically unintuitive, and only functional as a basic app and web research tool. The school philosophy around the usage of the device is paramount.

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Matt Henchen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Agreed.  And I would argue that too often the discussion is about "what we do at school" as if that is the only place students develop skills and knowledge. So I supposed the discussion is what is that thing, that device, that ALL students will have access to. 

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Joanne Finnegan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Too often the discussion is around devices, not learning. I still advocate that there is a need for a variety of devices for students whether the environment is 1:1 or not. For example, an elementary school with only Chromebooks is doing a disservice to kids if there are no tablets available for creating movies, using whiteboard apps for explaining concepts, etc. Yes, you can do all that with a Chromebook, but it takes much more time away from the actual learning (i.e., content) to do what is simple and fast on a mobile device/iPad/tablet.

Joanne

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Raymond Ballou <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Mike

Brendan beat me to the car analogy, so I will just add.

There is a lot of 'what business uses' or 'most popular this or that' postulation in Ed Tech.

If that applied in the Driver Ed world, our 'car' would be a Ford F150.


For 1-1, expectations benefit from being device agnostic, as none of us know how things will unfold ...


I echo what others have said re:

CART                        =>  HORSE
what do we want to do => what are our device options


R

I don’t think you can fairly compare the most expensive solution to the least expensive solution. 

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42 years in education and still love to learn!

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Technology Integration - Partnership for Change Initiative 

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This email may contain information protected under the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) or the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If this email contains confidential and/or privileged health or student information and you are not entitled to access such information under FERPA or HIPAA, federal regulations require that you destroy this email without reviewing it. If you receive this message in error or through inappropriate means, please reply to this message to notify the sender that the message was received by you in error, and then permanently delete this message from all storage media, without forwarding to anyone or retaining a copy.

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Burlington High School, Vermont

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