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Just an additional note - the “chesty” look is actually a fieldmark for
sharp-shinned over cooper’s.  Cooper’s hawks have a more even, tubular
shape.  Sharp-shinned hawks are barrel-chested and top-heavy.

ZSW

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 9:44 AM Jane Stein <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> You bet, Cynthia!  Very clear tail feather length and fat legs.  That
> flat look of the head in the last photo with its crest slightly raised
> is also a good ID factor when it appears.  Sharpies do not have that.
>
> Sharpie versus Coop is often a difficult call, but sticking to the
> basics helps to clear up most questions.  In soaring flight way up over
> your head, as hawkwatchers often see them, none of those indicators can
> usually be seen, so it's often a lot harder.
>
> Jane
> (Shoreham)
>
> On 10/16/2018 9:26 AM, Cynthia Crawford wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 21:45:07 -0400, Jane Stein <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Heh!  Sharpie vs Cooper is the single most difficult ID among raptor
> >> enthusiasts, so no shame if you got it wrong-- if you did!  Actual
> >> raptor experts might have a different take than Zach and I do.
> >> Experienced hawkwatchers have been known to literally come to blows over
> >> the ID.  But... I doubt it.  I'm an enthusiast of many years, not an
> >> actual expert!
> >>
> >> I wouldn't rely on the "bug-eyed" look since it depends so much on the
> >> angle of the bird and the picture and the familiarity of the observer
> >> with these guys.  But the tail feather length in such a clear pose as
> >> you got (not always the case in photos in the field!) is truly
> >> definitive, as is the thickness of the legs, when you can see them.
> >> Banders have wildly different bands for Coops and Sharpies, and once I
> >> saw those, I was totally convinced of the dramatic difference between
> >> the 2 species, not just variation from individual to individual.  Pretty
> >> much everything else is more impressionistic, so not really reliable for
> >> ID, only as contributing factors that can very easily lead the observer
> >> astray.
> >>
> >> One other factor to consider is that although there are more Coops
> >> around than there used to be, Sharpies still outnumber them by quite a
> >> bit. So Sharpie is the default ID for a smallish Accipeter, and an ID of
> >> Cooper's needs more confirmation from observable characteristics like
> >> leg size and tail feather lengths.
> >>
> >> Resist the ebird police!  But do let us know here if you get interesting
> >> feedback, positive or negative, OK?
> >>
> >> Jane
> >> (Shoreham)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/15/2018 8:25 PM, Cynthia Crawford wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:01:54 -0400, Jane Stein <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Agreed, Zach.  The tail feathers, despite the broad white tips, are
> the
> >>>> main tip-off-- all the same length.  In this tail position, Coop's has
> >>>> noticeably shorter outer tail feathers.  The relatively small,
> bug-eyed
> >>>> head is another.  Chest streaking is harder to judge, for me anyway,
> >>>> because it's not that consistent from bird to bird.
> >>>>
> >>>> It does look large and chesty for a Sharpie, but that may be the lack
> of
> >>>> context from this close, since it's impossible to tell from the photos
> >>>> how large those branches and trunks are.  And a big female Sharpies
> can
> >>>> be pretty close to male Coop's in size.  Lastly, I'd add this bird's
> >>>> rather thin, stick-like legs, although there's only a glimpse of them
> in
> >>>> the one pic that shows the bird lifting off from its branch, as
> >>>> contrasted with the Coop's thick, sturdy-looking legs.  The Coop often
> >>>> chases prey on foot, whereas the Sharpie rarely does, so the
> difference
> >>>> in the evolution of leg size actually has a purpose.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jane
> >>>> (Shoreham)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/15/2018 7:35 AM, zach schwartz-weinstein wrote:
> >>>>> Sharpie, with the messier reddish streaking, bug-eyed appearance,
> small
> >>>>> head and bill, and even-length tail feathers.  Nice photos.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 7:33 AM Veer Frost <
> >>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Gorgeous, thank you, hope someone will know.Veer Frost, Passumpsic
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On October 14, 2018 at 9:55 PM, "cynthia crawford"  wrote:Got some
> >>>>>> pretty good pictures- pretty sure this is a Cooper's. Opinions
> >>>>>> welcome:
> >>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/33836164@N03/albums/72157700879431161
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cynthia Crawford
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *Creature Kinships and Natural Affinities*
> >>>>>> Animal and Nature Paintings, Portraits and Prints
> >>>>>> NEW WEB SITE:
> >>>>>> www.creaturekinships.net
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> www.creaturekinships.com
> >>>>>> MORE PHOTOS and ARTWORK: http://pbase.com/creaturekinships
> >>>>>> EVEN MORE PHOTOS: https://www.flickr.com/photos/33836164@N03/
> >>>>>> Castle & Court Music for Harp:
> >>>>>> http://galleries.creaturekinships.com/?page_id=59
> >>>>>> BLOG: http://creature-kinships.blogspot.com/
> >>>>>>
> >>> Thanks Zach and Jane- appreciate your thoughts. I noticed the thin
> legs/feet especially, but felt the head was a bit large. Perhaps because of
> the extended neck photo. I wasn't aware of the "bug-eyed" feature for
> Sharpies, so that's helpful. I think I will report it as a sharpie and see
> if I get corrected by the ebird "police". ;).
> >>>
> > Gotcha, Jane. Will report id the "ebird police" come after me. ;).
> Meanwhile, here's a very sure Cooper's Hawk:
> https:[log in to unmask] I
> think the tail tells all here...or maybe it's a tall tail? ;)
> >
>
-- 
Zach Schwartz-Weinstein
203 500 7774