Issues of personal health practices have transcended either right wing or left wing outlooks. People in both camps have been both strong advocates of, and denigrated, alternative health philosophies and practices, organic diets and agriculture, and the like. To associate them with one or the other political persuasion is one way to dismiss and even slander people.
On Mon, Mar 11, 2019, at 2:43 PM, David Barouh wrote:
I suspect that rising autism rates are at least suggestive of a causal link. There's certainly a chronological link, dating back at least to the time that vaccine makers gained their immunity from liability for people damaged by vaccines and the consequent introduction of vaccines for ever more diseases. Can we really believe that studies establishing such a link have supposedly been "discredited," given the commercial bent of so much science these days, and given the commercial milieu in which all this is happening.
Much like climate science, the basic premise of which I'm not questioning, but which nonetheless has been hopeless politicized to the point that we are getting exact timeframes for disaster that spans a decade or less, and on the other hand, complete denial of its existence, are we sure that climate science really that advanced? I'm reminded of the Friedman Units, where Journalist Thomas Friedman, a big booster of the 2003 invasion of Iraq would every six months or so comment on that war's progress by saying that the US had "six months to get it right."
The issue is of the government mandating vaccination, i.e. forcing people to undergo a medical procedure violating several of the body's natural defenses, which seems to be a violation of the Fourth, Fifth and probably the Eighth and Ninth, Amendments guaranteeing that people are "secure in their persons," not "deprived of life or liberty," do not have "cruel and unusual punishments inflicted," and are not denied rights "not specifically enumerated." Can anyone deny that vaccines have harmed at least some people? Which means that some people can be harmed, so that forcing people to partake in a sort of Russian Roulette simply cannot be legal or constitutional.
On Mon, Mar 11, 2019, at 1:18 PM, Mitchel Cohen wrote:
I guess it depends, David, on how one defines "robust".
At 11:26 AM 3/11/2019, you wrote:
Mitchel makes a good point with
the example of fluoridation, but is there really robust evidence of a
causal link between some vaccines and autism?
Thanks for these important clarifications as to the AAPS, to Steve
and Sigrid. And thanks to Maggie for
fraising this issue. Steve and Sigrid
rightly critique only one of Maggie Zhou's links. And even there, there
is indeed a causal relationship between SOME vaccines, containing
particular adjuvants, to autism -- there are of course other so-called
"environmental" (meaning pollutant) causes of autism as
Just because the proponent of an issue may be a rightwing
organization does not make them wrong about the issue -- although it's
usually for the wrong reasons that they're right. Take for instance the
John Birch Society's longstanding opposition to fluoride in drinking
water -- which has been exposed by some independent researchers as a
waste product of the aluminum industry in the late 1940s and 1950s, not
something the John Birch Society would touch in their explanations. (The
JBS saw fluoridation as a "Communist plot" by the government,
and not as an effluent of the very capitalism that they were
At 08:45 AM 3/11/2019, Steve Nadel wrote:
Thanks Sigrid.Â Many people will have my initial reaction to
the name, that it is a "professional" society, i.e. science
based,Â Â Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia entry on AAPS which
further elaborates Sigrid's points
They oppose aboriton, medicare/medicaid and all formsÂ of
governmental health assistance. Here is a link to the Wikipedia article
Hi. The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons also opposes
the Affordable Care Act and socialized medicine more generally. My sense
is that the anti-vaxx movement is leaping on this endorsement because the
AAPS because it has the appearance of medical authority. Let's be more
On 3/10/19 7:41 PM, Maggie Zhou wrote:
- There was a congressional hearing last week on the use of force to
vaccinate (taking away exemptions).
- Two medical associations have come out with statements against
mandatory vaccinations in the past few days, the Association of
American Physicians and Surgeons, and Physicians for Informed
- Here's a well referenced and concise white paper on the evidence
& science that support vaccine exemptions.Â For those who
think vaccination is supported by science, this is a must read.Â
(I've also sent other links to evidence before, so this adds to
Meanwhile, governments are doubling down on forced
- ABC News is promoting that teens should defy their anti-vaxxer
parents' judgement and choose to vaccinate themselves.
"in at least 7 states a relatively new legal concept called the
mature minor doctrine allows teens to petition to make their own
- Australian government decided to reduce welfare payments for
unvaccinated children, to force poor families to vaccinate:
- Sigrid Schmalzer
- Professor, History Department
- University of Massachusetts Amherst
Proud member of the Massachusetts Society of Professors
(MSP/MTA/NEA), the union representing faculty and librarians at UMass
Amherst, and supporting public education and labor movements everywhere: umassmsp.org
- Moth and Wasp, Soil and Ocean: Remembering Chinese Scientist Pu Zhelong's
Work for Sustainable Farming (Tilbury House, 2018) -- picture