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I have an additional comment. If some people are 
truly horrified at what is happening in this 
country -- on par with Germany in the late 30s -- 
then how could they say that the answer is to 
wait until 2020 and "vote them out"?

Surely, a great deal of other actions would be required, no?

That's another reason why I don't believe the 
national Dem Party is honest (ahem) nor that the 
answer is to elect Dems to national office, 
although I think individuals on the local level can make a difference.

Mitchel



At 02:23 AM 7/5/2019, you wrote:
>Carol:¬  As Kamran says, SftP list is not a 
>place for political party postings.¬ ¬
>
>In addition, you may not realize that the SftP 
>list is international, and as such USian 
>politics are not what many non-USian members want or expect.¬
>
>Suggesting that people can just delete is 
>inappropriate: it is for posters to consider the 
>appropriateness of what they post, before they post.¬
>
>I appreciate your sincerity and sense of 
>urgency, Carol - in many ways I share it! - but 
>I would strongly urge you not post "Force 
>Mutiplier" or other partisan political material 
>to the Science for the People list-serv.
>
>Thank you,
>Claudia Pine
>a list moderator¬
>
>On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 8:47 PM Kamran Nayeri 
><<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Carol:
>
>Have you joined this list recently? How has the 
><https://actionnetwork.org/groups/force-multiplier>Force 
>Multiplier been allowed to post to this list?
>
>May be an officer of SftP can address this question.¬
>
>At any rate, in my half doze years of being on 
>this list it is the first time I see a political 
>party brings its campaign to this list.¬  If 
>this be accepted how would SftP limit other 
>political parties to join in--including 
>Republicans without being drawn into partisan 
>politics. If that happens, it would be the end 
>of SftP because so far it has been an 
>anti-capitalist, socialist voice with various 
>tendencies reflected in its deliberation but 
>never a partisan group especially in the electoral arena.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 5:59 PM Carol Axelrod 
><<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Trump is a lot worse than obnoxious. If most 
>people on this list don't want to hear from 
>Force Multiplier any more I'd hope they'd let me 
>know. It sounds like you two don't.¬
>It's very easy to delete my emails if you'd prefer.
>But it makes me sad that you really believe HRC 
>would have been as bad as Trump. You almost 
>sound like you'd vote for him which breaks my heart.
>
>
><http://forcemultiplierma.org>forcemultiplierma.org
>YOU X ME = DEMOCRACY
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 4:28 PM David Barouh 
><<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>It's always the same BS. One candidate is always 
>better than the other. Trouble is sometimes the 
>"better" choice surprises you. Clinton spent his 
>entire eight years bombing and starving Iraq. 
>Obama bombed and invaded how many countries? And 
>it was the same with Bush Jr. People now say 
>that if Gore had been president, "there wouldn't 
>have been Iraq!" Yet more bullshit. This article 
>makes a definitive case that Gore indeed would 
>have invaded Iraq:¬ 
><https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/19/liberal-myths-would-al-gore-have-invaded-iraq/>https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/19/liberal-myths-would-al-gore-have-invaded-iraq/
>
>Had HRC won the election instead of Trump, we 
>may already have had American jets trying to 
>enforce her insane "no fly zone" over Syria and 
>confronting Russian planes, and maybe even have had a nuclear war.
>¬
>The Dimwit Democrats are the ones currently 
>talking up war. Trump is obnoxious, but we're 
>not currently in a full-fledged war. We're 
>refueling Saudi planes in their bombing runs, 
>but that started under Obama, not Trump. This is 
>what voting for the two-party system always brings us.
>
>You're dreaming if you think there's a 
>significant change to be had with one or the 
>other of the two corporate parties.¬
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 4, 2019, at 2:45 PM, Carol Axelrod wrote:
>>I'm hoping that those that are that 
>>disillusioned may understand that this time if 
>>we don't understand the difference between 
>>Republicans and Democrats we're all toast. I 
>>think there are many thoughtful folks who agree 
>>that our system is not working but who know 
>>that we are not in a position to change it now 
>>and our very lives depend on turning Washington 
>>blue. And that applies not only to those of us 
>>educated, privileged types, but mainly the rest 
>>of the country and the world. We don't have the 
>>luxury of being politically pure at this moment. IMHO.
>>
>><http://forcemultiplierma.org>forcemultiplierma.org
>>YOU X ME = DEMOCRACY
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 1:42 PM Kamran Nayeri 
>><<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>But what if some of us think the problem with 
>>the U.S. politics is the two-party system and 
>>that the Democratic Party is as much an 
>>imperialist party as the Republican party? 
>>Should this list be turned into one supporting 
>>Democrats in the coming elections?
>>
>>On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 9:22 AM Carol Axelrod 
>><<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>...the maniac in Washington is spending our 
>>money to display the size of his weapons. And 
>>he's plotting to circumvent the SUPREME COURT 
>>so that the census questionnaire can be another 
>>instrument of voter suppression. And the 
>>immigrants at the border are jammed into what 
>>amounts to stationary cattle cars. And, and, and...¬
>>
>>So I'm not taking this week off.¬ Trump and his 
>>gang must be removed from office in November 
>>2020.¬  The best way we can do that is to 
>>empower voters of color, young people, women, 
>>LBGTQ communities, and the rest of us who are most¬ vulnerable.
>>
>><https://www.forcemultiplierma.org/fm-get-out-the-vote>Force 
>>Multiplier is identifying grassroots 
>>organizations¬ that are working to fight voter suppression in
>>¬ key states. As usual, we've done the research so you don't have to.¬
>>
>>¬ When turnout is high, Democrats win!
>>No one knows that as well as the Republicans.
>>
>>
>>Click 
>><https://www.forcemultiplierma.org/fm-get-out-the-vote>here 
>>for lots of information about the seven 
>>organizations on our¬ slate¬ -- in North 
>>Carolina, Florida and Michigan -- all key states in the 2020 elections.¬
>>
>>
>>
>>So please, in honor of the 4th of July,¬ 
>><https://secure.actblue.com/donate/veslate?refcode=CA4thJuly>donate 
>>to save our country¬ and the rest of the world.
>>
>>
>>Donate, and then go out and enjoy your 4th. My 
>>chicken wings are marinating as we speak.
>>
>>
>>With love,
>>Carol
>>
>><http://forcemultiplierma.org>forcemultiplierma.org
>>YOU X ME = DEMOCRACY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Kamran Nayeri
>
>Liberty without socialism is privileged and 
>unjust; socialism without liberty is brutal and 
>tyrannical. Opinion without study is ignorant 
>and destructive; study without opinion is empty and mercenary.
>
>
>
>--
>Kamran Nayeri
>
>
>
>--
>Justice will not be served 
>until<http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf> 
>those who are unaffected are as outraged as 
>those who are. ‚Äē Benjamin Franklin
>
>The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly 
>observed, will set off a revolution.¬  -- Paul Cezanne
>
>Nihil de nobis, sine nobis:¬ ¬ 
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_About_Us_Without_Us>Nothing 
>about us, without us!¬


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