By the way Brad, Community networks mean more then just computer networks. I have a community network, and didn't need any funding to eliminate the gangs, reduce dropout and absentee rates and just make it nicer around my community. (please check with the police, highschool, residents and kids if you want to know what I did). Unfortunately to integrate phase III, i.e. electronics takes some funding. Now we have problems, now we have entrance of the "experts". Oh Brad, I woyuldn't be upset if I had an idea. The fact is we have real accomplishments which we wanted to use to help demonstrate our effectiveness. But then the "elites" never have been in touch with reality have they? I know, I use to be one of them. So one more time Brad, go f..K yourself. I apologize to the rest of the list for the aggressive response, it's been a really bad last few months dealing with, hey people like Brad. Phil The only difference between qualitative and quantitative information is volume.