Bruce, I like the idea of an empirical test. But the families that live in the neighborhood need to be involved in the design of the test. If we just try to demonstrate to them what we already know to be the truth, we won't move the process. I suggest that you (and maybe other interested bikers/walkers) talk to the opponents about what for them would be a legitimate test of the traffic problem. Then set it up. Dave -- [log in to unmask] 802.656.2539 Child Behavior Checklist <[log in to unmask]> http://Checklist.uvm.edu/ http://www.uvm.edu/~djacobow ========== VTBIKEPEDPOLICY-L: The Vermont Bicycle and Pedestrian Policy Discussion List Subscription control: http://list.uvm.edu/archives/vtbikepedpolicy-l.html. For help: email [log in to unmask] with the word "help" in the message body.